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Vintage Sargent Hand Plane Question

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Forum topic by Clemmer posted 06-16-2014 04:28 PM 5374 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Clemmer

4 posts in 908 days


06-16-2014 04:28 PM

I picked up a rusty old bench plane that I can tell is a Sargent 409 from looking under the frog. However I have 2 questions about it:

1) It didn’t come with an iron or chipbreaker. I have a couple extra Stanley irons and chipbreaker combos that I tried to put on it, however the cutout in the middle of the iron doesn’t seem to be wide enough for the lateral adjustment lever to fit in the groove, so the iron sort of rests on top of the lever as opposed to sitting flush with the frog. Do I need an iron specific to a Sargent?

2) The lever cap is completely unmarked. I looked on the Sargent planes information site and found no info regarding an unmarked lever cap. Did Sargent make these or is the lever cap from another plane?

Thanks for any and all help.
Best,
Eric


15 replies so far

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7Footer

2543 posts in 1416 days


#1 posted 06-16-2014 04:42 PM

Check this out to determine your type, Don Yoda’s Sargent typing page

I’m not sure but the plane guru’s will know… You might just have a different lever cap.

-- http://www.youtube.com/nrk411

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Deycart

444 posts in 1725 days


#2 posted 06-16-2014 05:03 PM

Check to make sure the part where the lateral fits in the slot has not been damaged. Sometimes they get smashed for some reason. Just take a file to it and make it round again. The very early Sargent’s had a blank lever cap. 1887-1909.

Your Stanley blades and Chip breakers should work fine. The Sargent ones have the same width slot.

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Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#3 posted 06-16-2014 06:09 PM

^What they said. Make sure your chip breaker isn’t from a transitional. Those will be different.

Although the Sargent cap’s lacked a logo, they were typically stamped with the number on the back.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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Clemmer

4 posts in 908 days


#4 posted 06-16-2014 06:35 PM

Thanks for the help. As for the lever cap, the back has no number stamped. Only a dot on the middle.

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Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#5 posted 06-16-2014 08:41 PM

pictures?

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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Clemmer

4 posts in 908 days


#6 posted 06-16-2014 09:44 PM

Here are a few pics. I’ve filed down the lever pivot and it now fits nicely into the iron gap. Still not sure entirely what I’m dealing with here in terms of type or even manufacture. Either way, I’m hoping it makes a nice usable plane.

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Deycart

444 posts in 1725 days


#7 posted 06-16-2014 09:46 PM

Well, it looks like a Sargent made plane, but it is not a 409. They just used a 409 frog.

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Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#8 posted 06-16-2014 11:33 PM

it’s a sargent made frog, but if that base is a sargent, its not like any I’ve seen. I don’t think its a Sargent cap either.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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HorizontalMike

7160 posts in 2382 days


#9 posted 06-16-2014 11:44 PM

What Don says.

The frog looks late 1942-43 Sargent, though since the adjuster nut looks to be left-hand threads. I do NOT recognize the casting. May be Sargent but not anything I have seen, and I collect Sargent. The tote & knob screws look wide diameter and possibly post WWII Sargent, and probably steel with a top that may be brass plated. The chipper is definitely Sargent and NOT Stanley (smooth curves).

Why are we NOT seeing the blade/cutter?

I also need to see the ENTIRE lever cap to determine Stanley of Sargent origin. Both sides.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Tim's profile

Tim

3119 posts in 1429 days


#10 posted 06-16-2014 11:56 PM

I have a Sargent 414 and an apparently Sargent made Trustworthy Hardware store branded plane that have 409 frogs in them. In this SMC thread someone said all of their 2” frogs are marked 409.

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Clemmer

4 posts in 908 days


#11 posted 06-17-2014 12:32 AM

Hey Mike.
One side of the cap is in the first pic and the other is in the third.
As for the blade/cutter, it didn’t come with one so I left out the pic of the set I’m using labeled “Victory”. The tote and knob screws are in deed brass plated it would seem and are much wider than the screws used in the old Stanley Bailey that I bought from a junk store at the same time.

Thanks for all the info, fellas.

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bandit571

14661 posts in 2151 days


#12 posted 06-17-2014 12:44 AM

I had a SAVAGE #6 that had a base like that, and a Union frog. Iron was a tapered one with the Hex hole. Might have been a Ohio Tool base?

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7160 posts in 2382 days


#13 posted 06-19-2014 02:15 PM

IMO, the cap does not look to be Sargent, at least not anything I have seen (Stanley?).

The frog is definitely post WWII Sargent with a 1-1/4in left thread steel adjuster nut instead of the older 1in right thread brass adjuster nut.

The chipper you chose to use actually is a Sargent.

Hope all this helps… and welcome to the addiction!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View MikeUT's profile

MikeUT

123 posts in 827 days


#14 posted 09-29-2014 07:45 PM

I don’t have any knowledge to add but I do have an example. I bought this 14” jack last week and it has a lot of the same traits as Clemmer’s. It has the same cap with the single dot on the inside. The frog is the same as well marked with 409 on the bottom. The blade shows HERCULES Sargent & Co. MADE IN U.S.A. which would make it a type 6 dating it to 1950-1953.

My plane is obviously a different number but it appears to be the same type. Since it has a Hercules blade would they be considered Hercules Planes? I would automatically assume that if it weren’t for the 400-series frog. Hercules was the economy line for Sargent right? If so maybe they threw these planes together with extra parts from different years and called it good.

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Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#15 posted 09-30-2014 11:42 AM

About 1950 Sargent adopted the Hercules name. Although it wasn’t the quality of days gone by, it wasn’t considered secondary, it was their primary line.

http://www.timetestedtools.com/typing-sargent-bench-planes.html

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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