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General 50-200R Dust Collection

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Forum topic by Michael James posted 06-05-2014 06:56 PM 1032 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Michael James

89 posts in 2516 days


06-05-2014 06:56 PM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collection table saw

Hey everyone,

I’ve recently purchased a General 50-200R T/S (and upgrade from my Ridgid Contractor) and love the saw itself. It’s got lots of power and works like a charm. One of the reasons I upgraded was because of the enclosed base and (hopefully) the improved dust collection.

What I”ve found is that the dust doesn’t seem to be clearing as I would expect. In everything I’ve read, a T/S requires around 350-400 CFM for good dust collection. I have a 1.5HP DC that pulls 1100CFM and I’m using 6” metal ducting to the dust port and then reducting to 4” at the blast gate. The saw is connected via a flexible 4” hose. THere are a couple bends in the hose to get it to the saw but I wouldn’t think it would have such a drastic effect.

I know my system isn’t 100% efficient but I”m confused as to why I’m not getting good suction from the DC. THere’s only one port before the T/S port and I keep the blast gate closed on that one.

Any thoughts on this? Things I could check and possibley tweak?

-- Michael James - www.michaeljames.ca


15 replies so far

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

2526 posts in 1744 days


#1 posted 06-05-2014 07:07 PM

From reading a vast number of posts regarding inefecient dust collection on here, I can say this is a pretty common topic.
Without knowing what kind of DC and the size of the impeller, I can only speculate that the 1100 CFM is an inflated number that the manufactors estimate in their products.
Perhaps if you provide a brand name, impeller size, length of 6” and 4” ducting, an other details then others can respond and possibly answer you questions.
Good luck !

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

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Michael James

89 posts in 2516 days


#2 posted 06-05-2014 09:09 PM

The unit I have is the General 10-105 http://general.ca/products/1_general/10_dust/10-105.html.

I don’t have the lengths here but I would think the 6” ducting is close to 25’ and the 4” is a piece of 10’ hose. A friend just texted me and said my DC is just not powerful enough….maybe that’s it.

-- Michael James - www.michaeljames.ca

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kdc68

2526 posts in 1744 days


#3 posted 06-05-2014 09:23 PM

That’s the kind of information that may help others respond to your questions. Fred Hargis and crank49 are two LJ members I can think of off the top of my head that generally respond to dust collector questions. Both provide good info and recommendations.
Again good luck !

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1297 posts in 1416 days


#4 posted 06-05-2014 11:08 PM

A fair number for you CFM is somewhere in the 500-600 range. I love how they test the static pressure without the bags. Because you use a DC all the time without the bag. The first place to check is the intake port on the DC. Planer shavings will clog these pretty easily. the second is leaks. Small leak can really hurt a system. From there I am at a loss. I really think on a DC in that size you should have stuck with the 4” line. I am concerned that the 6” lines let the air slow down to much. By staying with a 4” line the air moves faster allowing the air to clear more dust without choking the machine.

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Michael James

89 posts in 2516 days


#5 posted 06-05-2014 11:52 PM

I’ll have a closer look for leaks. Everything I read says go with the biggest diameter ducting…I don’t think I can afford to change it now.

Thanks for your help.

-- Michael James - www.michaeljames.ca

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Shawn Masterson

1297 posts in 1416 days


#6 posted 06-06-2014 01:40 AM

There is tons of information/misinformation out there. It is really hard to sort it out.
Figuring duct size is a balancing act. To small and you are choking it off, to big and the air doesn’t have enough speed to carry off the dust.

You should be getting enough suction to remove most of the chips in the cabinet. If you are getting dust off of the top of the material you’re cutting, there’s really nothing to do but go with some sort of over arm setup. I have a 3hp cyclone and I still have chips in the bottom of my PM66. The cabinet is just not sealed enough to draw everything.

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Michael James

89 posts in 2516 days


#7 posted 06-06-2014 01:46 AM

I’m learning that. The funny thing is that it’s fine for my jointer, planer, and lathe further down the line. The bandsaw is just before my table saw and it’s pretty good too. I may move the t/s port to first in the chain, revisit my seals and just live with the results. I can’t afford a new DC or ducting at this point.

-- Michael James - www.michaeljames.ca

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

2526 posts in 1744 days


#8 posted 06-06-2014 01:48 AM

You know Shawn that’s good advice…. I apologize that I left your name out of my post #3…..

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

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English

517 posts in 945 days


#9 posted 06-06-2014 11:44 AM

Shawn,

Where is the DC problem? Is dust building up in the cabinet or on top of the saw. I have a saw stop with a dust collection shroud around the blade. The shroud is left short of sealing to the Table top to allow for the blade tilt.

No under table dust collection is going to be able to catch the dust the blade throws off above the table. I added a over table dust collection, it works great for all dust during the cut until the blade starts clearing the end of the board, then it throws dust on the saw and the floor. I have enough air flow that small cut offs up to 3/4” x 1×3 are sucked up the hood. Still I get dust on the table and floor at the end of the cut.

John

-- John, Suffolk Virgina

View ducky911's profile

ducky911

237 posts in 2257 days


#10 posted 06-06-2014 12:54 PM

Clean the filter

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3950 posts in 1961 days


#11 posted 06-06-2014 01:14 PM

With that much 4” flex, you’re reducing the air flow down quite a bit, and like Shawn said, you’re only starting with maybe 600 CFM. I think what you have can be improved, but it would entail reducing the use of flex to as little as possible. Consider upsizing the TS port to 6” and then run 6” all the way to the tool (that still won’t solve the dust coming form the blade. Remember, whatever air the DC is pulling has to come from somewhere, so sealing the cabinet (if that’s what you did) can be a problem. It’s better to leave sufficient opening to allow that need air in carry the dust away. That actually looks like a nice 1.5 Hp collector, you don’t see many of them with that big an impeller. I have to think your problem is in the way you’ve ducted it to the saw.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Michael James

89 posts in 2516 days


#12 posted 06-06-2014 01:30 PM

Some great comments here.

I agree that the 4” flex may be too much. I’ll see what I can do about changing that to a shorter run. The hurdle I’m facing there is mobility, but I have some ideas that may help reduce it. Filter is clean so i don’t think that’s the issue.

@English – it’s the stuff inside the cabinet that’s not clearing – and the sawdust that getting stuck inside the blade housing.

So here’s another question – the 50-200R comes with a hose connected from blade housing directly to the DC port. If I removed that, would that help? With the hose connected, it doesn’t seem to be getting much pull of air all the way up there. I’m thinking that then the dust will at least fall into the cabinet and be collected at the base near the port. Still may not be enough suction to pull all the dust but I’m wondering if it will help the dust I’m seeing being thrown into the air.

Thoughts on that?

-- Michael James - www.michaeljames.ca

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1297 posts in 1416 days


#13 posted 06-06-2014 08:57 PM

english-Mine is a open cabinet, everything falls to the bottom and gets sucked to the port. I have really considered an over arm, but it’s not in the cards yet but coming.

mike-I need a little more info here. I’m not familiar with your saw, but if the pix i’m looking at are correct then you have a shroud around the blade and a 4” port on the shroud. Is this right? If so don’t change it. I wish my saw had a setup like that, but no dice. If you have good suction at the 4” pipe there has got to be a restriction somewhere in the housing.

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Michael James

89 posts in 2516 days


#14 posted 06-06-2014 09:33 PM

Shawn – I wish it was a 4” pipe between the shroud and port…it’s a 2.5” one. I’ll take some photos tonight but you can see the pipe in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_W0HODVGck

It’s about 19secs in and then again at 2:10.

The 4” port is split so it sucks from both this 2.5” pipe and the cabinet.

-- Michael James - www.michaeljames.ca

View English's profile (online now)

English

517 posts in 945 days


#15 posted 06-06-2014 10:32 PM

Michael,

Try adding a blast gate to the cabinet side of the split. Adjust it closed a little to increase the flow in the 2.5”. I use this approach on my router table to balance between the fence and the cabinet.

Shawn, I made my over table dust collection, only cost was $12.00 for Lexan at Lowes and $10.00 for plastic screws. I have a SawStop and I did not want any metal down around the blade. Every thing else was made from scraps on hand. See this at my shop.

John

-- John, Suffolk Virgina

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