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Oneida and HF Dust Collector Combo...lol

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Forum topic by emrhappy posted 05-12-2014 10:08 PM 1149 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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emrhappy

62 posts in 1574 days


05-12-2014 10:08 PM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collection oneida hf 2hp cfm

I recently acquired an Oneida 2 stage dust collection system at an estate sale. I currently have a HF single stage dust collector. The HF is 2HP and the Oneida has a 1.5 HP Lesson Motor. Obviously the Leeson is a better quality motor, but the HF is 2HP instead of 1.5HP. I got the oneida primarily for the plethora of 4/5 and 6” metal piping, blast gates and the 2 stage setup. I’m thinking about taking the 2HP motor off the HF and putting it on the Oneida if it performs better… I have a digital anemometor and got the following CFM results off the HF: (converted from MPH cause I can’t get the dang anemometor to set on CFM).

Freshly cleaned, no cake (yet) 5 micron bag:
At intake of unit – 97 mph with 2.375 radius = 1050 CFM – No hoses attached. (1550 Rated CFM… Yeah, Right HF! Maybe if I took the filter bag completely off, but still doubt it. They’re all liars!!)
One blast gate open with a 10’ flex hose attached – 76 mph with 2.0625 radius = 620.68 CFM
Two blast gates open and two 10’ flex hoses attached – 60 mph with 2.0625 radius = 490.01 CFM

I’m going to check the Leeson with the same conditions and see which one performs better. I would expect the Oneida, but like I said above, I think they all exaggerate and it is .5 less HP. Another thing about the Oneida is it has the internal filter instead of external and I think that hurts the CFM as well.

Anyone know if I could simply switch the motors? Put the HF motor on the Oneida setup? Or, perhaps put a 3 or 5HP motor on the Oneida?

-- I cut that thing twice and it's still too short!


10 replies so far

View changeoffocus's profile

changeoffocus

457 posts in 1077 days


#1 posted 05-12-2014 10:45 PM

I’ve spent a lot of time messing around with a HF 2HP dust collector with similar results.
I am not familiar with a Leeson motor but I would leave both units as designed.
The HF motor is strange to say the least.
There are volumes of information on DC on this site and Bill Pentz’s I suggest doing some research here first before doing any rew
I did change the bag filter to a Wynn unit and highly recommend that modification.
Good luck on your project.

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emrhappy

62 posts in 1574 days


#2 posted 05-12-2014 11:03 PM

Thanks and I appreciate your input… I’ve been on Bill Pentz’s site and have read over it thoroughly. He has put a ton of research into this subject… Far more than I have for sure. I don’t think, however, what I’m asking would necessarily change the design of the system. I’m simply thinking about adding more HP to the Oneida system. What I don’t know, and I’ll call Oneida tomorrow is if there’s a difference in the impellers of the 1.5 to 2 to 3 HP cyclones. If the impellers are the same, I can’t see what the downside would be… but hey, that’s why I’m hear asking.

-- I cut that thing twice and it's still too short!

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1297 posts in 1408 days


#3 posted 05-12-2014 11:04 PM

HP means nothing. Both motors spin around 3450 RPM. Whether it’s 1/2 hp or 500 hp it makes no difference they spin the same speed. Look at the size and shape of the impeller. 10-1 the ornidia has a better impeller/blower housing.

View woodchuckerNJ's profile

woodchuckerNJ

1153 posts in 1094 days


#4 posted 05-12-2014 11:18 PM

Shawn it does make a diff. The hp is what allows the motor to overcome moving large amounts of air and a bigger impeller is required for that.

I remember hearing that the internal filter made this unit more efficient than the similar sized 1.5 cyclone that onieda made w/external filter. The thought was that the internal filter was cleaning up vortices in the air. That’s all I remember.

I don’t know why you would not prefer a 2 stage over a single.. I would try the 2 stage out and figure out how well it performed. Maybe try a neutral vane which I don’t think the Oneida has.

-- Jeff NJ

View emrhappy's profile

emrhappy

62 posts in 1574 days


#5 posted 05-13-2014 12:03 AM

Jeff,

I agree about the HP. If it didn’t matter, why would they sell larger HP motors. Even Bill Pentz claims you need 5HP to get the dust particle extraction needed (though I’m not real convinced that lower HP isn’t beneficial). I absolutely prefer the 2 stage… That’s the reason I picked up the Oneida. I just want to put a bigger motor on it! Leave the housing and impeller intact and put a larger HP motor on top. Though it almost seems sacrilegious to put a pull a Leeson motor and put on a China Freight motor on in it’s place, but that’s the only extra motor I have that’s larger then the Leeson. I hope you’re correct on the internal filter being more efficient. I don’t want to have convert it and get an external filter, but I will if need be.

What do you mean by a ‘neutral vane’?

-- I cut that thing twice and it's still too short!

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emrhappy

62 posts in 1574 days


#6 posted 05-13-2014 12:15 AM

Shawn,

Interesting perspective… I did notice that the impeller speed is the same across the several different HP options, but I still believe more HP is better. Maybe it’s just that it can collect from multiple machines simultaneously and suffer less CFM degradation with multiple blast gates open… don’t know.

-- I cut that thing twice and it's still too short!

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1297 posts in 1408 days


#7 posted 05-13-2014 01:51 AM

Let me give you the best example I can. I helped my neighbor build a huge compressor. We sourced a large compressor head from a service truck, it originally had a 12 hp kohler engine. We figured it was more than it needed. after we got it all put together it was time to decide on a motor to use. Before he retired he rebuilt electric motors at work. He had a 3 hp, 5 hp, and 2-10 hp motors on the shelf. We slapped the 10 hp on it and fired it up. We watched the amp draw from startup to shutdown. Though the FLA rating was 40 amps at 220, it never drew 22 amps. The 5 hp he had was rated at 25 amps on 220. we swapped the 10 out for the 5 and there was no difference, it performed perfectly. The reason Bill suggest a 5 hp is to handle the load of a 15”-16” impeller. Whatever you put on a motor has a load, the motor will only use the amps needed to spin the load at hand. My portable 1hp DC only has a 10” impeller so it only needs the amps from a 1 hp to handle the load. now the big DC is a 14” impeller and it is maxed out on a 3 hp, I really should have it on a 5 hp, but when you add the resistance caused by the cyclone and duct work it puts it just under the FLA and keeps it from burning.

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1297 posts in 1408 days


#8 posted 05-13-2014 01:56 AM

When you look at the HP ratings of a motor they can be exaggerated. The best way to compare a motor is the watts. If you use the formula (amps x volts = watts) This will give you real number to compare. This formula also proves that a motor uses the same amount of power whether it is on 120 or 240.

View woodchuckerNJ's profile

woodchuckerNJ

1153 posts in 1094 days


#9 posted 05-13-2014 02:33 AM

emrhappy, one more thing That motor on the HF is really a 1.5 with a 2hp label.
It does not reach 2hp. Put an amp meter on it.
Lookup how many amps a 2hp should pull under load on the web.
I believe You’ll find you max out at a 1.5 hp.

Certainly you can try swapping them, but if you have to ruin one to do it, think about it.

Look up a neutral vane on Bill Pentz’s site it’s basically an inlet that continues into the cyclone rather then ending at the can. I protects the air flow coming in from turbulents from the inside of the cyclone.

edit:
Ok Shawn is saying what I’m saying, he just short cutted his response. We are on the same page.

-- Jeff NJ

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emrhappy

62 posts in 1574 days


#10 posted 05-13-2014 02:37 AM

Shawn/Jeff…

Thanks for the input and insight! man I love this site! I appreciate the wisdom found here.

-- I cut that thing twice and it's still too short!

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