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Joinery options bamboo ply shelving for wine cellar

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Forum topic by daveingva posted 05-05-2014 03:49 PM 1109 views 0 times favorited 8 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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daveingva

10 posts in 2023 days


05-05-2014 03:49 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question shelving wineracks joinery

Hello people,

I am building a wine cellar and would like some thoughts on my best option for joining the shelving I will be using. The shelving will consist of 18mm bamboo plywood horizontals held between 25mm bamboo ply verticals.

Main dimensions etc. are as follows:

Depth of verticals/horizontals 30.9 and 30.4 cm respectively
Height of verticals: 200 cm
Width of horizontals: varies…between 62-80 cm for all with the exception of one module of eight shelves which are 101 cm wide
Maximum weight along any shelf will be on the 101 cm wide shelf: 19 wine bottles supported = 30 kg.
Horizontals will be angled at 10 degrees so that the wine bottles slope down towards the back wall

To maximize access to the bins and wine bottles I can store I am building this as just verticals and horizontals – i.e. no front or back support, edging strips etc. So a couple of remarks about steps I will take to reduce racking stresses:
I will be gluing and fixing horizontals between the vertical members.
Vertical members will have an L bracket at their top that will be screwed into a horizontal joist running around the margins of the wine cellar which I put in prior to hanging the drywall.
There will be an aesthetic crown moulding (4cm high) around the very top of the shelving units that will be dowelled and glued into the front of all vertical elements

I am not particularly concerned about shelf sagging, given the depth of the shelves and the fact they will all be fixed. Even the longest span should I think be fine, given it will “only” need to support 30 kg across its width of 101 cm. I also think the units will not have any significant racking given the points I mention above.

What I would like opinions on is my best method for joining the verticals and horizontals. This is a big project, with 104 horizontals fitting inbetween a total of 19 verticals. Because of the number of pieces of wood necessary and the fact that bamboo is so hard on tools I have had my wood supplier already cut the verticals and horizontals for me, so these dimensions are fixed and I quite intentionally did not plan an setting the horizontals into dados (given the verticals are 25 mm thick).

This means I am looking for a joinery solution to fix the horizontals between my verticals (the units will range from being only one module of shelves wide to consisting of 5 modules of shelving – i.e. 6 verticals supporting 5 sets of shelves between them). What will count for me is speed, accuracy and ability to set up quickly for repetive work. Aesthetics is a concern but not huge….wine bottles will cover these shelves and the junction between horizontals and vergicals soon enough.

Options I am considering are:

1. Dowelling and gluing.
2. Pocket-holes and screws and glue.

If I go with dowelling I would likely buy a Dowelmax jig. Similarly, would pick up a Kreg or similar jig if I go with pocket-holes.

I suppose I have a slight preference for dowelling and gluing as one wouldn’t see the pocket-hole drill holes. On the other hand the pocket-hole approach has the advantage of not needing clamping during assembly as the screws will pull the verticals and horizontals together. I did briefly consider cross-dowels (barrel nuts), although this option seems to me to be too time consuming for the setting up and drilling involved (although is a very strong joinery method).

In the end, I find myself leaning to dowelling/gluing and have thought I could perhaps get the best of both worlds going with dowelling with the Dowelmax as it seems to me at the time I drill the holes in the verticals for the dowels I could also drill out a smaller pilot hole for something like 8mm woodscrews using one of the other bushings. I could then have the very first horizontal/vertical joints only making use of dowels and glue but as I add on each new vertical I could put a couple of screws through these pilot holes and countersink them before adding on the next module of horizontals.

Fire away with thoughts – all input gratefully received,

Dave M


8 replies so far

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ChefHDAN

808 posts in 2315 days


#1 posted 05-05-2014 06:45 PM

Dave I think an image would help explain your plan, I’m kinda lost about what your asking in the explanation, do you have a 2D sketchup?

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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daveingva

10 posts in 2023 days


#2 posted 05-05-2014 06:54 PM

No Sketchup drawing.

I probably wrote too much detail. Basically the question I am asking boils down to this:

What joinery option would people think is best suited for joining plywood endgrain to plywood face grain for a shelving application?

I have to do 104 of these so I am looking for the strongest and fastest joinery approach that is well suited to repetition. My favoured option so far is dowelling/gluing with Dowelmax, my next best thought is pocket-holes with a Kreg jig.

Hope that clears it up but if not let me know. I could do up a Sketchup drawing easily enough I suppose.

Best,

Dave M

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ChefHDAN

808 posts in 2315 days


#3 posted 05-05-2014 09:35 PM

Since you don’t want to do dados and you don’t have the dowel jig or the pocket hole jig, I would vote for biscuits and brads. Placing your left and right sides inner face up with the back edge butted together, you can clamp a straight edge across your shelf line and quickly place exact biscuit slots on both faces that will match. Cut all of your biscuits, and then at glue up shoot each joint with brads till the glue sets ala Norm and when finished set the cases on their backs and cross measure to check square.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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daveingva

10 posts in 2023 days


#4 posted 05-06-2014 05:08 AM

Thanks ChefHDAN. I actually don’t have a biscuit joiner either and from what I’ve heard dowels are meant to be stronger. On the other hand apparently biscuits can give you a little bit of play to work with, so if I am going to be spending a couple of hundred on a tool (which is not really my issue) then perhaps a biscuit joiner could be an idea.

So thanks, I will add biscuit joiner to the mix giving me three options here: dowels, pocket-holes, or biscuits.

Other thoughts or comments on the above?

Dave

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daveingva

10 posts in 2023 days


#5 posted 05-06-2014 07:26 AM

Actually I am also open to purchasing some more expensive tools for this job as I can see their use in other projects….so the Mafell DD40 duo doweller and the Festools Domino would go on my list as well.

D

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waho6o9

7176 posts in 2043 days


#6 posted 05-06-2014 11:12 AM

Domino

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ChefHDAN

808 posts in 2315 days


#7 posted 05-06-2014 01:15 PM

If you’ve got the money for a domino I’ve drooled over one and have endless debated internally over that and a mortise, but I do own a PC biscuit joiner, and a Kreg master system.

I built a wall of book cases with 1/2” ply for one of my children’s room’s and did it only with the biscuits and brads, setting the opposing faces under a single guide and face cutting the biscuit slots across both gave me dead on slots with about 24 shelves arranged in 4 verticals. It was nothing fancy but $50 of ply some edging ripped from a poplar board and some paint and then the glue brads and biscuits it was done in a weekend & I think it really took longer to get painted than build the pieces.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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daveingva

10 posts in 2023 days


#8 posted 05-06-2014 01:20 PM

Yeah…the thing about the Domino is the price. I live in Switzerland where things are outrageously expensive but I will price check it all here and in the States as I have an upcoming trip in a couple of weeks.

The project I am in now is a complete basement reno (the wine cellar is just part of that), and there will be lots of built in bookshelves and acoustic treatments for a home theater, so something like the Domino (or the Mafell unit…in North America they make a dual doweller rig for Hoffmann that has been reviewed well) could make alot of sense. I usually try and avoid power tools and do my woodwork using hand tools but this renovation has of course taken me out of my artisanal approach and put me into a more of a machine based route.

Thx again for your comments,

Dave

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