Bashing the USA

While many of our brothers and sisters are fighting and dying to liberate other countries our families are suffering. Business’s are closing down. People are losing their jobs and homes. The economy has been drastically declining and getting worse. The money used to liberate these other countries would solve our problems. We sit here hoping things change but our borders are being infiltrated. We are vulnerable and week, in my opinion as week as the countries we are helping. America is a great country to everyone but itself.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

At the height of De Gaulle’s popularity as Prime Minister of France, the country was in a wave of new-found nationalism. De Gaulle himself contacted US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and informed him,”I want all American soldiers off our soil by the end of the year”. McNamara’s response: “even the ones that are buried there?”

-- If Stradivarius was alive today, he'd be using Gorilla Glue.

Thanks for the insite Roman. From a natural born Canadian and a naturalized American.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

wow. i like this one. its true though. thanks!

Roman, I too am a Canadian and proud of it. Did you hear the pin drop on our northern sovereignty?

-- I will not preach, nor will I be silent.

Thank you, Roman.

One of America’s greatest features is it’s proximity to the great and beautiful country of Canada.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Thanks, Roman.

-- Doug, Cass City, Michigan

Roman, I too am a Canadian and proud of it. Did you hear the pin drop on our northern sovereignty?

I never said we’ld be willing to give that up, but I’ld be happy to share because we have neighbors who already set the example

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

Again, thanks Roman.

-- If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it's free! PJ O'Rourke

Roman, thanks. I too get very tired of hearing how bad the USA is when we’ve done so much for the world. I’d love to see how other countries fared if we

• Stopped keeping them free
• Stopped all foreign aid

As a veteran of our latest war, I would like to thank you. In times like these it is good to hear that there are supporters of our Nation.

America’s weakness comes from the lack of support within. With that being said, thank you again.

-Don

-- -The trick to getting ahead is getting started!

Roman, as a Native Born “American”, I say Thank you. As the Grandson of two fine Canadian Ladies, I am smiling, knowing that my relatives up north are still a part of my extended family. “Oh Canada, Glorious and Free”. May both of our Nations remain this way!

-- I love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

I’m in agreement here too. But, having been grown in the U.S., I always thought we could take a few lessons from Canada.

Something that sticks in my mind (as an example) was the movie “Bowling for Columbine”, when Moore was grilling Charlton Heston (NRA). Moore was commenting on guns per capita. Canada has some outrageous number of guns per capita and a handful of murders by guns, whereas U.S. has a much lower ratio of guns per capita and a huge number of murders by guns.

Unfortunately Heston didn’t have much to say…and I thought…Well gee, If that’s the case then it doesn’t sound to me like guns are the problem, the people who have them are.

We recently had a murder locally. 13 yrs old and 16 yrs old. One shot in the head, dead. The other shot and had her throat slit, but she survived to identify the culprits. They are trying to decide on whether to put the 16 yr old on trial as an adult or not. I don’t know what they will do with the 13 yr old. The people they assaulted were something like in their 70’s or older. (it’s cases like this that make me want to include the parents in the trial.)

I’m still trying to figure out how to make the U.S. better. (btw, I have 6 firearms not including the cross-pistol and BB gun and am grateful I can have them, for perspective.)

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist

Nice one! Regardless of what the politicians do, I am proud to be an American. I was in England many years ago touring with a friends band as a technician, and I got into several arguments with Frenchmen mostly, some Englishmen about how terrible America is and how obnoxious our people are and how corrupt our government is. I always brought up the fact that if it wasn’t for our involvement in WW2, they would all be speaking German right now. It almost always shut everyone up and got me in a few scuffles to boot, but I didn’t care…well maybe it was more the fact that I would point out that the French rolled over like a rock when the Germans basically marched right into Paris and took over the place. The lend lease act supplied the English with almost all their fighting supplies years before we got actually involved in the war. Some people would like to forget history because they don’t like the truth…but I say a loud and proud thank you to any military serviceman who fought in WW2, or any war for that matter. Oh, and if you ever go to England, don’t ask anyone who is the “old Bag” that is on their money..they get a little testy !

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

I think Don (above) hit the nail on the head. Our biggest weakness comes from lack of support from within. I don’t think that the majority of the younger generations (mine included) know how to “dig deep” and sacrifice, to pull in their neighborhood to work for the greater good of their community and the nation.

My Great Grandmother, Grandfather, and Grandmother used to tell me stories of WWII and the Great Depression. My Great Grandmother had five boys and two girls in the Great Depression. My Grandfather said that he was about 13 when the Great Depression hit, the same year when my Great Grandfather died in the mines. My Great Grandmother was left a single mom in her late 30’s to raise 7 kids, uneducated, no work. My Grandfather used to say that the boys went out to hunt rabbits with sharp sticks, and they fished in all kinds of weather. If they didn’t catch something, they didn’t eat. No car, no insurance, no town Dr, collecting sticks to burn in the wood stove, no livestock. I sometimes even wonder if my Great Grandmother knew the definition of the word selfish or self centered, because she sacrificed everything she had, which was very little- yet she would have given her blankets to a neighbor.

My point is, I think the lack of support that Americans give this country is directly related to this “Me” mentality that is so popular in today’s younger generations. We (generally) really don’t have any idea what it’s like to have to go through that kind of living. I think that sometimes the selfishness clouds and taints our view of this country.

Thanks, Roman, for your thoughts.

Steve

-- As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17) †

Roman,

Your words and thoughts should make all Canadians proud…................I know I am.
Thank You.

All the best
Gord

-- A woodworker’s character is what he really is. His reputation is merely what others perceive him as…www.canadianwoodshopnewsandreview.com

Roman,

This one was favorited. I have lived all over the world as the son of a USAF Colonel (ret. now) and I am always shocked at the USA bashing I see from my fellow countrymen. When I dig a little deeper I am never surprised to see that the majority of them has never been outside our borders to see what the rest of the world is like and just how good we have it here in the ole US of A.

-- Check out my blog and podcast "The Renaissance Woodworker" at www.rogersfinewoodworking.com/blog

Sincere thanks Roman. (US Navy vet, and proud of it.)

My ancestors arrived in West Virginia from Switzerland in 1632. They were mennonites & many moved to Penn. & bought farmland from William Penn, an English mennonite. Some of that land is still deeded to the decendants. Being farmers, cheap land was always a requisit they participated in the move west. My Grandfather made the move from Illinois in 1940 by purchasing 2 quarter sections in southern Alberta. I have a lot of relatives in the U.S. across the country from West Virginia to California. U.S. bashing pains me as does the lack of reconition of the contributions of Canada on the world scene.
As to the French….they have never been able to adjust to the fact that they are no longer a “world power” & the English to the fact that any country they colonized, they virtually destroyed through exploitation. Then we have the Quebec French who are always threatening to seperate from Canada under the illusion that they are mistreated & using it to acquire preferred treatment from the Government of Canada. For some reason they think they are talking about taking what is now the Province…and leaving. Only problem is that they are overlooking that there are others with a valid prior claim to the territory….namely the Canadian Indians living there. Such is the world….ohhh welll.

-- Lee

I couldn’t agree with Don and SteveKorz more. Sort of on the same note, I think a lot of Americans these days forget to soon about events in our past and criticize our leaders and country when they try to stay the course to prevent these occurences from happening in the future. I just think it’s sad that it takes an event like 9/11, for example, to bring people in the US together and make them proud to be from the USA.

On the other hand, in response to Kolwdwrkr- Americans have no one to blame but themselves for the situation our economy is in today. People that have had their home foreclosed on due to subprime loans- don’t feel sorry for them. They should have asked more questions and read the fine print. Nobody forced them to signt the bank notes. What ever happened to the old saying that “if it’s to good to be true, it probably is?” Second of all why does everybody in this country need a new or almost new home that costs $300,000 or well above that mark, two to three cars, $50,000 diesel trucks, atvs, boats, etc?? People have over extended themselves greatly in this country and nobody forced them to. Why is it the governments problem to bail us out of personal financial problems? Unfortunately, the situation was bad enough that the government had to get involved or it would have affected far more people that didn’t contribute this problem. I think the bad part of all this is people are going to be bailed out and not really learn a lesson. In 50 years it will probably happen all over again because we are a forgetful country. Probably get a lot of heat about what I just said, but it’s my opinion right or wrong.

As I see it sub-prime mortgages were merely the plug which was pulled when defaults began, & that has caused things to go down the drain. The real problem is a little thing called “core inflation” introduced by Govt’s of most industrialized nations. What is core inflation. That’s when company A manufacturing in North America, closes the factory & moves the manufacturing to a country like China or Mexico or India, etc. & then imports the product that they used to manufacture. Government looks at that & says cost has been reduced hence inflation is reduced. This then allowed for example, the U.S.Treasury & The Bank of Canada to reduce the prime lending rate & have the procedure swallowed by the public.
Why did they wish to do this ? Consider a manufacturer making widgits. Say his annual cost to produce the widgit is $ 3 Million. He goes to the Bank & gets a line of credit for $3 Million & the bank charges him 3% over prime which for this example is 2% for a total of 5%. Without the line of credit his average monthly cost is $250,000 but with the line of credit it is $150,000. He saves $100,000 without spending a single cent of his own capital. What’s wrong with this ?
Saver’s, read people who are astute, are being penalized most of whom are senior’s on fixed income & are instead subsidizing business because their savings are not generating sufficient income. Further core inlation is a phoney number. You & I do not function at core inflation but instead at the cost of living level. In Canada they used to measure the cost of food, transportation, heating, etc to establish the rate of REAL inflation. Name anything that falls into this category that has not doubled in cost over the past 10 years. To do that real inflation has been 6% plus annually.
I don’t look for a turn around in the economy until Governments face reality & stop cutting the prime interest rate which is what caused the problem in the first place. How do you expect to correct a problem by continuing to do the same thing that caused the problem ?
Now then, with the choke off of credit, many companies are in dire straits & closing or declaring bankruptcy.
How cum ? They were not in that state prior to phoney low inflation hence interest rates so how cum ?
Guess what they did with the original #3 million they used to use for manufacturing costs. Private Companies
used the money to enrich the owner’s personal wealth. Public companies shelled out to their shareholders driving up the value of the shares OR as in many cases established a larger line of credit & bought out competion resulting in a much larger debt load. Whatever they did the money aint there to continue operations. Problem is….this has been going on for at least 30 years & I for one have little confidence that there is anyone with the knowledge to come up with a solution that does not entail a lot of pain.
I feel sorry for the new President Elect because he has a hell of a mess to try to fix. I feel even sorrier for Canadians because their politicians are demonstrating that they are too stupid to reconize what’s coming down the road at them like a runaway freight train.

-- Lee

i always say when i find myself in a hole the first thing i do is put the shovel down . its not the right tool to get out of a hole . you need something to climb on . ive changed my lifstyle considerable over the last two years . i dont blame any one group or any one country . before it was a world economy when one country hit a bad spot the others could pitch in and help them out . in a world economy we all go down together .

Yup…in a global economy, a recession is like a virus & spreads world wide. Nothing to stop it. The thing that scares me is that this thing could become a bonafide depression & the only thing that broke the last great depression in the 30’s was WW11 which came along in 1939. The thought of a WW111 terrifies me in that it could easily esculate into a nuclear holocost putting the human race back into the dark ages. Course one of the things that perpetuated the depression was that Govt’s froze spending on anything hence no money in circulation or very little. How can you make money if there is none to begin with ? The only thing I agree with here in Canada is that our Government is prepared to run a deficit & spend in key areas such as infrastructure which will keep dollars circulating but not sure it will be enough to spur a recovery before we find ourselves bankrupt with no money to spend. Worrysome.

-- Lee

mvh, I understand what you’re saying. However, if the cost to own a house begins at $300,000 and you have no choice but to pay that much do you buy and try to live the american dream of homeownership or do you say oh well its to expensive at this juncture? But if you wait it may be $400,000 next time. That’s what led me to make my decision. Housing was going up and up. So I purchased thinking it wouldn’t change. Then it dropped significantly leaving me upside down. Then the economy changed and work started to slow way down. I couldn’t afford to keep my shop so I moved the shop into my garage. But now I’m not making enough to pay the mortgage so the house will forclose. Thus putting me out of work and out on the street. So is it my fault that this is happening? I didn’t send troops over to Iraq just to spend billions if not trillions on a war that will never end. Its not my fault the government keeps telling people the insurgions are still attacking places when in fact it’s the civilians fighting us because they don’t want us there. But we plug along because we can’t stick one foot in and then leave without seeing if we can fit the rest of our body in. The Vietnam war is another good example. That was a senseless war was it not? All that money should be spent on our soil, for our people. The middle easterners can throw all the rocks they want to at themselves. Its all desert anyhow so why should we bother. If we want the oil that bad lets take them over and stick an American flag in the soil and be done with it. Be we keep plugging away. Now you have large companies seeking bail outs because their companies failed. Is that my problem? No but my tax dollars will fix it. I wasn’t the one flying around in a private jet or driving a Bently. They were. So they failed because of themselves and we are responsible? Let them flop. Use the money that would bail them out and help small business’s grow. They are talking about billions of dollars. If I had $200,000 I’d be tickled shitless. But I can’t even get a loan for 1/4 of that to help my business. It’s retarded. So yeah the big company has a lot of workers that will lose their jobs. Sure. But while we save those jobs whose saving the thousands of jobs being lost from small business’s like mine shutting down? I had 3 employees counting myself and at one point had as many as 6. So 3 of us are out of work and we are not alone. People are closing down left and right, and not only in woodworking. One of the guys that goes to jiu jitsu practice with me has been layed off and he’s an accountant type guy. So basically screw the little guys. Lets save companies that could have made changes within to save their selves. I am proud to be American, and proud to be in America. I understand the crap that happens every where else and know it is at least safer here. The question is For how Long?

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

Roman as a Vet of the war in Iraq and have a brother currently serving there I Thank You for your post. I wish more “Americans” shared it.

“If you cannot stand behind our Troops, Please feel free to stand in front of them.”

-- I came, I sawed I fixed it. (well sort of)

Every American stands behind our troops. They are our brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, etc. Just because we stand behind our troops and support them doesn’t mean we have to stand behind what they are being forced to fight for. I want our troops here fighting for us, not in the desert fighting for a lost cause. Do you believe that you can change people? Those people have been fighting for centuries and will never stop. Leave them alone and worry about our country for once. Use our resources to feed our people, protect our borders. We are deploying our soldiers to fight for other peoples freedoms all the while losing ours. Nobody is bashing America. America is bashing itself right into the dirt. Think about that the next time you use your foreign products, drive your foreign cars, and yell at your foreign employees. Welcome to a new 3rd world country.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

Thanks Roman. If I remember correctly, When the US was involved in two world wars, Canadians was there to greet us when we stepped off the boat. Canada and the US are more like brothers than neighbors.

-- Thos. Angle

“Your Welcome” to all

Yes, Canada enetered WW2 on Sept 10 1939 and the USA entered nearly three years later On Dec 8 1941 but Roosevelt knew it was coming, had his hands bound by law so contributed helping the allies through arms supply. If an American president did today, what he did then, he would have been impeached so thank God he made all the right decisions and never got caught!

My family has land up on Manitouland Island, Ontario Canada (Largest fresh water island in the world) and when we were looking to buy land we checked out a place owned by a very old and retired big shot in the US Airforce. It was an awesome place, had its own fish hatchery, bunkies, huge kitchen and I remember a double bed atop the fireplace mantle. I remember my father saying that it wouldnt surprise him if President Roosevelt stayed there. Just a few years back divers found a plane wreck deep in the pristene clear waters of Lake Huron just off the shoreline of the island, the plane owned by the US Airforce was ferrying letters to President Roosevelt during WW2 and he had indeed stayed at that place?

I know that if the world didnt have the USA, it would be much more dangerous then it is already. There is a very old saying that I like, author unknown to me

“The only thing that stops evil men from succedding is perfectly good men doing nothing to stop them”

Cheers

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

I usually don’t get involved in these political discussions (I thought they weren’t allowed) – I stick to making bad furniture and finding excuses to post pictures of our animals, but this thread caught my eye.
All was going well – I’m English, so I usually just watch as the Americans and Canadians chatter away – I have opinions on that stuff, but I keep them to myself. But, LeeinEdmonton’s remark “the English to the fact that any country they colonized, they virtually destroyed through exploitation”, I couldn’t let go. I’ve tried, but I just can’t.
I’ve traveled through much of “British colonised” Africa: – the roads you see, we built – the railways you see, we built – the systems in place, we instituted. As you travel down the River Gambia, for example, you see the remains of the irrigation systems the British installed to grow food – now left to waste by the locals to whom we supply food aid. Talk to anyone who was around during British rule there and they say, to a man, that things were better then.
For proper exploitation you need to look at the current leaders of those countries who grow their Swiss bank accounts while their people starve.
Singapore – a fine 1st world country. India – I think we developed that somewhat.
Don’t get me wrong, colonisation was bad bad bad and there was exploitation, but “virtually destroyed” simply isn’t true – for that, you have to look to the Portuguese and Belgians (oops, I’m living in Portugal, but truth is truth).

I didn’t like Bush and I’m afraid of Obama. I’ll be happy to bash this country I love. We have done some great things and some very brutal selfish things. I’ve lost family in Iraq. My sister gets to be honored with a Purple Heart an an accommodation of valor. Maybe we are a big enough country to be honest with ourselves.

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

KnickKnack: Sheesh, I’m still smarting over the fact that following WW11 Canada forgave England $1billion dollars of war debt & they didn’t even have the courtesy to say thank you. In the late 1940’s a billion was still big bucks especially considering that the average salary in Canada was still less than $2.00/hr. My late Mother-in-Law came from Hartlepool hence on her side all of my wife’s relatives are there & we visited them in 1997. I was amazed at how many people we encountered that still thought Canada was a British colony. Ohh welll.
Oh yeah…I wonder why so many English ex Rhodesians scampered off to South Africa & now live in Canada, to this day still think that the native African population are stupid instead of deprived ?

-- Lee

well the can has been opened now knickknack i’m born english but lived most of my early years in south africa and yes the english built inferstructure but they also pillaged the countrys they helped build as they do to this day they give with one hand and take back with two hands and i think that all the world leaders are the same i’m just an ordinary bloke just trying to live comfortably but that is becoming ever incresingly harder
so when i see all this money being spent on wars that the russians tryed and failed i hate english american canadian service men and women trying to win two wars that arn’t winable

this is only my opinion i just want to live happy

andy

-- cut it saw it scrap it

Somehow this isnt or wasnt my intent in that pople point fingers and blame this person and that person and or this country and that country.

My intent was to say thank you. Thank you to the USA for all you’ve done thats good, both past and present.
I think that a lot of people, no matter where they are forget the good things and dwell on the bad.

I often told my daughter that ” Those who forget their past are doomed to repeat it and those who live in their past will have no future”

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

Thanks Roman…we just get carried away. That’s one of the Great things about being an American. Today we are swearing in a new president. It was pointed out that when he was born there had never been a African American Supreme Court Justice, Congressman, let alone President. As a matter of fact his parents marriage was illegal in most states. Thanks again Roman your post is appreciated!

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

Roman, I look back at the past and blame it for everything that is happening and will happen. If everyone would forget about the past maybe people can look into a brighter future. But NNNOOOO we all have to say well america helped do this and that. But the problem is that someone was NEGATIVELY impacted by Americas decision to get involved. Thus creating hatred. Personally I think everyone should shake hands and worry about tomorrow, not about what wars we pissed people off in. In fact America needs to worry about AMERICA for once and screw everyone else regardless of how much they have helped us fight wars. You want to help send money, jobs, etc our way.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

Roman -

I missed this the first time around . . . this is another time I am grateful for the LJ shuffle feature.

Thank you!

David (USN – Retired)

-- http://foldingrule.blogspot.com

kolwdwrkr-

• In fact America needs to worry about AMERICA for once and screw everyone else regardless of how much they have helped us fight wars.*

I wouldn’t say it like that but I agree with what I think you mean. I think it’s great that America reaches out a helping hand to others that need it. I believe that our sense of charity makes us stand above others. However, in hard economic times I think we should pull back on funds leaving our country and help ourselves. Sure there are lots of starving children in parts of the world but what about our starving children? If our country fails to take care of its own people what good can we do to others? Sometimes it’s necessary to be a little selfish. That’s why on a plane they tell you to put your own oxygen mask on first. Even if your intentions are good, you can’t help anyone if you become a victim yourself.

-- Don't tell her I'm in the shop!

There’s an old Mad Magazine cartoon. Two guys sitting at a lunch counter, one American, one foreigner. American says to the foreigner,” I’m tired of all you people complaining about the US. It’s the best place in the world because we can criticize and disagree with our government, and you can’t.” The foreigner replies, ” But we can! We’re even encouraged to complain about and criticize your government.” (this is from waaayyback, but the best I remember it). That freedom is the strength of any democracy and may well be one of the defining factors of democracy. Without that freedom you are living in a dictatorship where someone else decides your opinion for you. Unfortunately, lately the Americans seem to be sliding that way what with the so called Patriot Act and Homeland Security. By the way, if I parse it correctly, Homeland Security is translated in German as Geheimestaatspolizei (I’m sure there’re some here who know the short form of the that) . Hopefully they will put the brakes on to that slide and remember their own Constitution and Bill of Rights. Both of which are probably the best things to come out of the American experiment. If they don’t then they are going to become exactly what Bin Laden and his ilk say they are.

Thanks for the post. I am 32 and am proud to be an American but a little scared for my and my children’s futures. I see that my generation and younger generations are not taking responsibility for their own actions. People who borrowed ridiculous amounts of money for homes that they couldn’t otherwise afford are labeled as victims. Like the spoiled teenager that wrecked their car while drinking and driving the government is giving them another new vehicle.

My grandfather, the man I admire most, is now 85 and lived through the great depression. It was his philosophy that you should save up for everything that you have and that it wasn’t right to get a loan. “Owe no man nothing”. I wish I heeded his advice. I have college debt and a mortgage. Although I got a mortgage I could afford, I wish I had a huge savings account to weather this storm instead. To think that my grandfather grew up using twine as a belt humbles me.

-- There are three types of people in the world, those who can count and those who can't!

to all those who took the time to say thank you to me for saying thank you to you….......and to all those who thought it and didnt have time to write down “thank you”..............to me….....who said thank you to you

it was a pleasure to read every single thread and am so happy to say “thanks” but….......

Eh Bassbully. ...............I like the way you speak of your grandfather and share you and your grandfathers sentiments. Reading your words make me wonder if you might be my nephew as “Pops” sounds like my Dad.

The world is getting smaller faster and faster and I am one who believes that every one should get a plasma TV before me especially my kids. Dont stop there….........make sure your kid skates, make sure he and she and him and her all get to hold a hockey stick, not just one hockey stick but two or three of the 50 dollar “sticks”..............before me. Dont stop there either cause we all know that every kid is good at art class and every kid deserves to take…............”Hockey”. ............”Figureskating”.........”Soccer”...........”Rugby”.............”More %$#@&^% Hockey” and I get to go l drive my truck and spend my gas and every &^%$#& commercial on the TV says that if we, or me, or you, doesnt do what the TV says we should do, has morally lambasted us into believing that if we dont…........and so we swallow and choke on debt, shove each and every credit card, buy and buy and buy cause i we dont

We have failed as parents…........What could be further from the truth?..............or at least thats a dominant kind of theme on the infamous boob tube advertising you get everytime you turn the dicky flicker on…...................but then again its easier to turn the TV on to entertain us and our children then it is to entertain? Very hard to have it both ways?...............at some parties its possible?..............

Once again and sincerly, I say thank you as I appreciate what I have and my very fortunate lifestyle and this boy knows that I wouldnt have it, had America not been so giving, so for so long, and for so many, with so little thanks…..................thats a lotta “so’s eh”!

Thanks

Nuff said

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

Wow.Thanks Roman I have copied the text from your original post and will be sharing with the next sad sack that says America sucks(right before I punch him)

-- teh most beautiful about a tree is what you can make out of it...even if that is only a fire!I hate raking