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Is "Meeting Code" a fair standard for the building industry?

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Forum topic by Bob #2 posted 01-14-2009 04:21 PM 1328 views 0 times favorited 22 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Bob #2

3809 posts in 4016 days


01-14-2009 04:21 PM

Topic tags/keywords: resource renovating rip offs

For those who don’t know him Mike Holmes is a contract / TV personality in Canada that exposes substandard building practices and shows methods to do it right as well as how to avoid the crooks and dummies in the first place.
I think many of you will enjoy this piece on the Ontario Canada construction business.

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/marketplace/contractors.wmv

Here’s the website if the above chokes.
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2007/01/contractors.html

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner


22 replies so far

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cpt_hammer

133 posts in 3807 days


#1 posted 01-14-2009 04:33 PM

We need that show based on US standards also. I’m finding out all sorts of stuff on my house and it’s only a little over a 1 year old. Building Joists to L/360 standard or less, not enough insulation. Quality doesn’t happen anymore, only quantity with these builders.

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Bob #2

3809 posts in 4016 days


#2 posted 01-14-2009 05:43 PM

It seems the standards are so low in many areas that they are an open invitation to poor quality work and unscrupulous contracters.
It another example of the “bureaucrats” not doing what they are hired for.

Nothing should “pass” in spection like the examples you see in this one episode.
Mike Holmes has a whole series of these nightmares.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

View John Ormsby's profile

John Ormsby

1285 posts in 3731 days


#3 posted 01-14-2009 05:58 PM

As a general contractor in California I receive on a regular basis information from the state contractors license board. In these letters is a list of contractors who have had claims against them and what the results were. There is always many pages of these contractors who have had their licenses revoked. It seems the two areas are failure to perform the work or bad construction techniques. The good news is that at least, here in California, the license board does take action. There is always going to be a percentage of bad apples and is normal for any industry, whether it be construction or any other business. Just look at the jerk, Geitner, who is nominated for treasury secretary. He hadn’t paid his taxes for 3 or 4 years and is now going to control the IRS. He paid his back taxes only recently in order to try to smooth out the confirmation process. Would want him to work on your home?

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

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Bob #2

3809 posts in 4016 days


#4 posted 01-14-2009 06:02 PM

Jim: do contracters have to post a bond in California?

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

View kolwdwrkr's profile

kolwdwrkr

2821 posts in 3585 days


#5 posted 01-14-2009 08:13 PM

Bob, We do have to be bonded here in CA. John, I get the same newsletter and I agree that there are a bunch of licenses being revoked for good reason. But what about all the bad reasons. One good example is the fact that you have to post your license # on ALL your advertising. That’s retarded because a majority of the business lets say in the Pennysaver don’t have licenses at all. And yet they thrive. I think the Licensing requirements in CA are bogus simply because most homeowners can care less about the license, and hire unlicensed contractors to begin with. The problem is once you get licensed you have to be legit through everything from workers comp to hanging posters on the shop wall. But at what cost? Now there are cities making you get a business license with them as well. So now I have a contractors license saying I can work in california as a contractor. But then the city says uh you have to have a business license to work here. I say uh but my shop isn’t in your city. They say uh but the city still wants your money so if you intend on providing services here pay up. So where does it end. Oh, I know. When you go out of business. California doesn’t care about small business, and charging for everything under the sun tells you that, and making so many rules its impossible to follow them all shows it as well.
Now I also think the bail outs are rediculous. How bout this. How bout giving Tax breaks to all the small business’s that fell behind on taxes and are being forced to close down because of lack of work, but still owe thousands to the government. Pee on these people, the government needs that money to give to big failing business so in 10 years they can fail again.
Oh, about the codes. I’ve worked in a lot of homes that shouldn’t have passed inspection. In fact I was afraid the place was going to burn down. I’d flip one lightswitch and a light would come on. Fine. Then I’d flip another switch and the same light would go off but others would flicker. Scarry stuff. The walls were over an inch out of plum to my cabinets. Was it really me? I don’t think so. Every joint in the millwork had to be bondoed and sanded. The gaps were big enough to fit a finger in. Window jams were grinded down with grinders so the casing would hit the wall. But the idiot grinding left big dips that needed bondo. The inspector must have walked through this house with a blindfold because he passed everything. The only thing he didn’t pass was the stove. Apparently you couldn’t have a decorative tile backspash behind the burners. She had to have a big stainless steal panel that went to the hood. I’ve never heard of that but he wouldn’t let it go. To me everything is ass backwards or screwed up in one way or the other. And as a business owner I think it’s very discouraging and tempting to follow the crowd that chooses to do it illegitimately and save the money for other more important things like skilled workers or better tools.
Sorry for the rant.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

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pommy

1697 posts in 3686 days


#6 posted 01-14-2009 08:40 PM

Bob we get holmes on holmes on sat tv he’s good and yes i think we all should have codes and standards to work to we here in the uk have check a trade which you can reg your company to and then you can get ref’s through them …..

andy

-- cut it saw it scrap it SKPE: ANDREW.CARTER69

View Bob #2's profile

Bob #2

3809 posts in 4016 days


#7 posted 01-14-2009 08:45 PM

The point that Mike Holmes makes subtlety over and over again is that the crap passes and every time without fail there is some government lackey involved in the pass process.

It’s also “not their department or mandate” when there is a problem.
They are there in droves to collect thier fees and licence charges though and they will legislate ‘BS’ blindly until something bad happens.

I Hear you KW

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

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dennis mitchell

3994 posts in 4309 days


#8 posted 01-14-2009 08:48 PM

As long as low bid is the order of the day you will continue to get low quality. Period. If you have to rely upon codes and regulations (lawyers and bureaucrats) rather that craftsmanship and training you will continue to get cracker box construction.

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dennis mitchell

3994 posts in 4309 days


#9 posted 01-14-2009 08:50 PM

Maybe I should watch the video before crawling on my soap box…I’m just such an idiot!

View Woodchuck1957's profile

Woodchuck1957

944 posts in 3759 days


#10 posted 01-14-2009 09:03 PM

You should have to have Workman’s comp on your workers. I haven’t worked alot of construction but I’ve worked in it long enough to know that most workers that work for a Contractor in the trades aren’t paid very well, and working conditions are very poor, yet the Contractor lives high on the hog. But if you think some of the Contractors do shotty work, wait a few years after all these doit yourselfers that watch the home improvement shows and then butcher the house up even more. lol, It’s all scarey. Theres going to be some really messed up homes out there.

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dennis mitchell

3994 posts in 4309 days


#11 posted 01-14-2009 10:03 PM

Ok…hummm. Kinda pissed me off. That sure left the impression that 90% of the contractors rip people off. Guess they have to sell TV ads. Kinda makes me think the TV personalities have lower morals than the people they are reporting on. Most contractors just do a job. Some do crappy work. Many do a better job than they are paid for. Very few are criminals like this hummer driving creep.

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Woodchuck1957

944 posts in 3759 days


#12 posted 01-14-2009 10:13 PM

I don’t know that it’s only just about being ripped off, I think it’s also that alot of the so called Contractors in the video don’t know what the hell they are doing when it comes to the actual work, and or hire workers that don’t know what they are doing, and then don’t supervise them. In the state I live in anyone can be a Contractor, there is no test, just a fee. I like Mike Holmes, I think he does a great job, level headed, and he’s very personalble, someone I wouldn’t mind working for.

View Bob #2's profile

Bob #2

3809 posts in 4016 days


#13 posted 01-14-2009 11:06 PM

I think what would bother me most is that the consumer is lead to believe that his largest investment is being properly renovated or built to a code that protects his investment and his family.
That responsibility belongs to those brave enough to ask for the licenses and offer permits for profit.

Those people are the bureaucracy not the contracters.

If we are not able to obtain reasonable standards from these people then it is time we sought out other institutions to do the job properly for us.

Many people would jump at a chance to have a job coordinator that oversees the job and insists that the services are state of the art.

For the rest of the consumers looking for a bargain – good luck, cause nobody is on your side.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

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jeffthewoodwacker

603 posts in 3799 days


#14 posted 01-15-2009 04:11 AM

Having been involved in having 6 homes built by 5 different builders (the last home I was the general contractor) I found that you have to be on the job site every day to make absolutely certain that what you specified is what you get. In this part of the world some inspectors have been known to pull up in the driveway, fill out the inspection sheet and tape it to the inspection box without ever stepping foot in the house. If you are going to spend the bucks to build a house take the time to learn what the codes are and be involved. If you buy a house that is completed talk to 4-5 people who have been in homes that were built by the same builder. Get a licensed home inspector that has a building background to do a thorough inspection. Home inspectors should be bonded – if they miss something they end up paying.

-- Those that say it can't be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

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oldskoolmodder

801 posts in 3674 days


#15 posted 01-15-2009 04:57 AM

I blame part of this on the idea of HGTV and DIY network making thousands of DIYer’s into “craftsman” in their own eyes. They make it look so easy on TV, and because someone watches an episode on TV, then they now have the complete knowledge to do electrical or framing or whatever, in their own home. No matter how many disclaimers they show are say on the shows, peoples’ attention spans aren’t anywhere near where they need to be sometimes.

-- Respect your shop tools and they will respect you - Ric

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