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Yates bandsaw help

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Forum topic by TysonK posted 110 days ago 619 views 0 times favorited 28 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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TysonK

58 posts in 402 days


110 days ago

Help please,

I picked up this J-Line Yates American bandsaw about a year back on craigs, painted it and it ran super smooth for a few months. The owner before me had put in a 3HP motor and new tires on the wheels. A few months ago it started vibrating a small amount and finally vibrating quite violently in cycles, it would run smooth for 10-20 seconds then shake terribly and finally it was almost always shaking. For a massive saw that weighs 100s of lbs, this was pretty scary.

I don’t have experience restoring tools, but took it apart as best I could, both wheels are out of alignment and wobble by at least 1/8”, the lower wheel shaft alone has some slight wobble to it when I pulled it off and turned it. The lower wheel has some of the aluminum drilled out indicating (I think) an attempt to balance it in the past.

At this point I’ve put it back together and can’t get anything to work properly. It still vibrates, the blade wanders always to the far back or front despite any adjustments.

I’m just not sure what to do. Is there a way to true the wheels or should I replace them entirely? What about the pulley shaft? I pulled it apart as best I could figure out, but not sure it the bearings have a ring or something else holding them in place or if they just have to be persuaded by hammer, or perhaps the small wobble in that shaft will be ok if the wheels are true.

Anyone have experience with restoration of bandsaws? I’ve looked around vintagemachinery.org a bit, but still unsure what to do. My primary objective is to have a nice working tool, not to restore old machinery, so is it even worth the trouble and cost it might take?

Any thoughts? Thanks much for any advice.

Tys

-- -- Tyson


28 replies so far

View TheWoodenOyster's profile

TheWoodenOyster

605 posts in 534 days


#1 posted 110 days ago

There is an LJ named Loren who hangs around a lot. He gives a lot on input and his shop is almost all restored tools. He might be your man. You might try PMing him if you don’t get a response from him after a few days.

I know the feeling with old tools. All my tools were bought or inherited and you have to find a good medium of when it is worth fixing something and when it isn’t. I inherited my bandsaw, and it is homemade out of plywood. Believe it or not, it actually works ok. I had the vibration issue for a while and got rid of about 80% of the shake by adding duct tape onto the wheels. Weird, but it worked. Tires are dryrotted, but that duct tape balanced them right out and brought them back to life. Sometimes it is worth accepting flaws if you can eliminate most of the problem for cheap or free.

-- The Wood Is Your Oyster

View woodchuckerNJ's profile

woodchuckerNJ

868 posts in 233 days


#2 posted 110 days ago

So first you have to isolate where the problem is. Is it the wheels, or the motor, or the belt to the motor.
Without a blade are you able to reproduce the vibration? If yes, then narrow down , is is the single wheel, or is it the belt, or is it the motor. remove the belt.. is it still vibratinig.. check the motor, you may have a bad bearing, or perhaps a shorted winding in the motor… so it is missing one pole in a spot… view the way an induction motor works on the internet… do a google search… in either case you have to take it a step at a time to find what is causing the problem.

I think your wheels were probably already out of round and out of true b4.

One step at a time.. good luck, I know you will find it easily enough. I would love to have that machine.. I do a lot of resawing, that must eat wood no problem.

-- Jeff NJ

View Loren's profile

Loren

7238 posts in 2247 days


#3 posted 110 days ago

Check the tires. Hold a pencil or something like that up close
to the tire and spin the wheel by hand and you’ll be able to
assess if the tires are lumpy. That’s an easy thing to address.

The bottom tire can be turned true under power from the
motor. I’ve done it with a lathe gouge before. Definitely
figure out a way to rest the tool shank on something so
you have a fulcrum. The top tire can be turned true by
having a helper hold a corded hand drill up to it with something
like a rubber sanding drum chucked in it. This spins the
wheel. Maybe the helper can just spin the wheel by hand.

Obviously you should look for excessive play in the bearings
and things like that. Some people are inclined to replace
bearings on any old tool. While I understand the rationale,
I’ve never done it myself and I’ve been using old machines
for a long time. I’m of the if it ain’t broke school of thought
and seldom paint machines either.

Your belts may be lumpy. That happens.

Is the saw sitting well on the floor? Stick a wedge
under a corner if it isn’t.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Bluepine38's profile

Bluepine38

2876 posts in 1684 days


#4 posted 110 days ago

You mentioned that both the wheels wobble at least 1/8”, unless you have been beating on the wheels
and bent them, this usually means that there is some wobble in the shaft, you have do find out what is
causing this, and since it just started to do this, bearings are the usual culprit. Follow Woodchuckers
advice, one step at a time until you have eliminated the wobble. Yates-American made wonderful sturdy
machines, so this one is definitely worth spending a little time on. Be patient and have fun.

-- As ever, Gus-the 75 yr young apprentice carpenter

View TysonK's profile

TysonK

58 posts in 402 days


#5 posted 110 days ago

Good thoughts all, thanks.

I did pull the blade off to see how the wheels spin independently and how much it vibrates. With just the motor running the lower wheel the vibration is very minimal. Wouldn’t pass the dime test I’d think, but definitely not getting the strong vibration. I double checked the wheel play to be sure I’m not exaggerating and the top wheel is just under 1/8” wobble, the bottom wheel just a bit more. Just to be sure, here is a quick illustration of the way they are moving, though that’s probably already clear.

There are two belts running from the motor to the wheel shaft, both are link belts. I did pull those off earlier and with just the motor running I get about the same vibration as when it’s running the lower wheel, just enough to be detectible, but very minimal.

Jeff NJ, do you have other thoughts when the vibration is largely gone when I remove the blade? Somehow the combination of the top and bottom wheel and their alignment? I agree with you the wheels were probably problematic when I bought it.

Loren, when you talk about “lumpy” wheels, sorry, I’m not sure what you mean. Do you mean the tires that might need replacing, or the aluminum wheels themselves? I hadn’t thought to simply take a lathe gouge to remove some of the wheel. Do you take down the front of the wheel, turn the wheel around and do the back, or will the front be enough?

Thanks everyone for your advice, I’ll keep at it trying to isolate the culprit problems.

-- -- Tyson

View woodchuckerNJ's profile

woodchuckerNJ

868 posts in 233 days


#6 posted 110 days ago

So from what you are saying the motor and lower wheel do not represent substantial vibration.
So only connected to the upper wheel does.

Now you have a few things to consider.
  1. is the tension correct on the blade. Is the spring still giving you what you expect.
  2. is the tire on the wheel in good shape. Is it hardened, has it somehow disintegrated, or bunched up. If it is questionable, replace the tires(both). They only have so much life.
  3. have you tried other blades? Is it possible you damaged this blade by getting it caught or the blade has a bend.
  4. is the top wheel fully seated on the shaft?
  5. When you test this unit, have you pulled back all guides and bearing to make sure you have a clean testbed.

It does appear from what you describe to not be related to the lower half of the frame, so lets just see what’s going on with the top.

-- Jeff NJ

View woodchuckerNJ's profile

woodchuckerNJ

868 posts in 233 days


#7 posted 110 days ago

One more thing, your saw has a brake on it, can you check to make sure it is not engaged at all unless depressed.
This is still lower half, but due to fly wheel action, you would only really notice the vibration if both wheels are not doing the same thing, and if the brake is grabbing at all the top is spinning at one speed and the bottom is on /off on the brake it could really add quite a bit that looks like vibration but it is not vibration…

-- Jeff NJ

View Loren's profile

Loren

7238 posts in 2247 days


#8 posted 110 days ago

The tires.

I won’t speculate as to whether they require replacing.
Rubber tires can last a long, long time. Even if they
crack they can still run for years and years. Turning
old tire true also exposes fresh rubber which may
help the blade track better.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View woodchuckerNJ's profile

woodchuckerNJ

868 posts in 233 days


#9 posted 110 days ago

And another thing to check.
Take a drill bit, or other steel and place it on the shaft or nut of the upper wheel while the wheel is spinning under motor drive. Do you feel a ticking . This indicates a bearing is having issues.
The lower is tougher to check, as you have to find a spot where the bearing are seated in the frame, you can’t do this on a moving shaft.

-- Jeff NJ

View mramseyISU's profile

mramseyISU

50 posts in 145 days


#10 posted 110 days ago

I’d bet money on a bearing being bad too. For something else to be bad (bent shaft or wheel) I would think you’d know what caused that hitting the saw with something but bearings are more gradual. That or you’ve got a cracked blade. I’ve seen plent of them jump around just before they change form from a circle to a straight line.

-- Trust me I'm an engineer.

View TysonK's profile

TysonK

58 posts in 402 days


#11 posted 110 days ago

Thanks again all.

-I have had trouble with multiple blades, and the most recent blade I was spinning was brand new out of the paper, I don’t think it’s the blade.

-There could be an issue with tensioning. I am able to tension the blade, but as I am having trouble with keeping the blade aligned on the wheel anyway at various tensions, I’ll look further into this.

-The tires on the wheels are in good shape visibly, no deterioration or bumps that I can find, but just to be safe I’ll look into replacing those. I’ll snap a close-up photo tonight and add it just for the record.

-The top wheel I need to inspect more, so that’s where I’ll put my efforts next, take it and the top assembly apart.

-The brake wasn’t engaged before, and I actually took it off completely when I had the lower assembly apart as it wasn’t attached to the front foot pedal anyway so removed it just to be sure it wasn’t causing problems.

So I’ll dig into the upper wheel and see what can be found. I’m also grabbing ‘The new complete guide to the bandsaw’ tonight from the library and will see if there are some other adjustments that I’m missing.

Thanks all so much, your suggestions are very helpful.

-- -- Tyson

View Loren's profile

Loren

7238 posts in 2247 days


#12 posted 110 days ago

Some of those old machines have vulcanized tires. They
are supposed to be very good. I wouldn’t recommend
casually throwing away tires from a maker like Yates.

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?50124-A-repair-to-vulcanized-band-saw-tires

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View TysonK's profile

TysonK

58 posts in 402 days


#13 posted 109 days ago

I’m pretty sure the guy I bought it from said he replaced the tires, but I’ll post a pic or two to get any thoughts before I swap tires. certainly not something I want to do if it’s not necessary. ;)

-- -- Tyson

View TysonK's profile

TysonK

58 posts in 402 days


#14 posted 109 days ago

Here are a few pics of the tires. They don’t look like they need replacing, though as always I’m new at this. I’m pretty sure these are urethane tires and they look to be in pretty good condition.

-- -- Tyson

View Loren's profile

Loren

7238 posts in 2247 days


#15 posted 109 days ago

Looks like you might have urethane tires installed over old
rubber tires.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

showing 1 through 15 of 28 replies

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