Should it be this hard to pick a Table Saw

Dude, it took me 3 months to decide on a tool belt…. Seriously. (BTW, ended up going with the Occidental Leather pro-framer if you’re ever in the market…:-))

As for table saws I have been using the Grizzly 1023 commercially for the last 2 1/2 years. It is 5hp with a cast iron router table wing, and I think it was under $1300 delivered. I would probably forgoe the router table extension and get the 7’ rails instead, or use a sliding table. It’s been a great saw; I have no complaints.

Regards, JM

-- Jarrod, Taos, NM http://jzmurphree.wordpress.com/

I don’t know what the answer is that your looking for, and I don’t know why you think you need an industrial table saw. I’ve had a Contractor’s saw since 1995 and still have no reason to buy anything else.

What type of saw do you use woodchuck?

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

I’ve owned and used an very old 8” Beaver, a 12” Craftsman, A Makita Bench top, A General Cabinet Saw, A very old Poitras, SCM, Griggio…............and the list goes on.

I guess that age has tempered me as I rarely purchase anything in haste and even more rare…......do I ever buy “BIG TOYS”.........new. I can understand the thrill of shinny metal, a warranty. I watch the auctions via the internet and when the right “toy” is on the block thats on my wish list….....I attend.
Giving an example, I bought a stroke sander, mint condition for 1,300 that sells new for 5,000.

Guessing that if money were no object I’ld jump in my Dodge 1/2 tonne Porsche and zoom down for a brand new 12’ slider, but for me its not an option. I would rather have a nice cabinet saw that will last me the rest of life, that probably wont depreciate then buy a brand new saw thats in my budget onlyto regret it down the road.

Festool makes a nice contractors saw.

Good Luck

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

It’s a 34-445X Delta Contractor’s saw with a 30” unifence and mobile base. The last of the American made Delta Contractor saws. I’ve added a Fenner Drives PowerTwist link belt, a Penn State Industries dust hood ( that I designed for them ), a Delta 50-390 rear extension table, replaced the tiny toggle power switch that was mounted in the cabinet with a paddle switch that is now under the fence rail, and wired the motor for 230V.

Very nice sir. The thing looks like the hope diamond compared to what I’m working with. Thanks for the advice.

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

It’s very very hard if you have so many options. In my case, there are about only two in the market (in my country ie Malaysia) 1. shop built (custom built) and 2. Scheppach (imported). No headache of choosing!

With your $1K budget, I would pick Grizzly1023 as mentioned by Jarrod.

-- masrol, kuala lumpur, MY.

Once in awhile I see one of these saws in good to great condition popup in Craigslist or ebay, etc. very reasonably. A 34-445X in practically new condition just sold last month locally for $600. The saw is actually a 34-444, what makes it a 34-445X is the Unifence and the mobile base. A plain 34-444 will go for $250 – $300 depending on condition. A cabinet saw is a good saw if you have the extra money, but I don’t think they are really a neccessity unless your running a fulltime shop. Save your money for other machinery, like a dust collector, drill press, thickness planer, miter saw, mortiseing machine, bandsaw, disc sander, router table, lathe, etc. the list goes on and on, it’s not a cheap hobby to get into. After 28 years I’m finally pretty close to all that I want and need as a hobbyist. Spend your money wisely.

I’ve been using the same 10” Beaver/Delta contractor TS since 1986 very similar to that 34-44x. I’ve often dreamt of getting a Unisaw but now that I am in New Zealand they aren’t available anyway. As I am preparing to go off-grid, I started thinking why I really need a 3 or 5hp saw anyway and how I would power it and the truth is I have yet to find anything my 1.5hp contractor saw hasn’t been able to do. The fence is a bit persnickety but it hasn’t stopped me from doing anything. I’ve considered just a fence replacement but even they aren’t available here so I’m looking for a home built improvement but it’s not urgent, I’ve waited 20 years already!

-- Steve, New Zealand, www.steveracz.com

......wow I too am in the market for for a new tablesaw.I have been running a Makita job saw dropped into a Rousseau table.I have gone thru three new tops and 3 Makitas over the last 7 years.This set up has traveled around the country with me for two years and has served me well for many of cabinets ,doors, decks and pretty much name it…....but I recently got a shop and it is time to upgrade.So after much deliberation and research I am saving for the Powermatic 66 which I found at CPO for $1900 bucks which is a steel.There are a lot of saws out there and they all will do the job but the pm66 is hands down the sweetest saw I have ever worked on.
let me now what you go with.

-- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding......."

A 3HP Table Saw for under $1000 will be hard, unless you look at used Table Saws. Although I just received this link from Woodsmith for a 3HP Steel City TS for $750.

-- http://theinquisitivewoodworker.com/

I feel your pain, man. I finally thought I had narrowed my TS choices down to two and then I joined this site where I got enough advice to totally change my mind. My budget was about $700-900 so I had to decide between going with some super power machine OR a pay less for a machine that would really meet all my needs and have enough money left over to trick it out a bit.
After taking the information here and talking it over with several guys at the local Rockler I ended up going with the Delta 36-979 for $450 at Lowes. I found a 20% coupon on eBay to drive the price down to $400. I went with the Unifence that I found on eBay for $210, picked up a Wixey digital angle guide for $40, Freud 60 tooth blade for $20, and because I had done so good on the savings, I have enough to pick up a Craftsman Pro Jointer floor model.
For what I need, the Delta 979 will serve me well. I guess it all comes down to this; is the amount of money that you are going to spend on the extra HP worth it to you, or can you do the same jobs for the most part with less HP and get more “toys”....
But, just like when you buy a piece of electronic equipment, once you make your decision don’t read anything else about any other TS. Lock yourself in a place with no access to anything that might make you think that you made the wrong decision.

Good luck!

Here is a quick fix that can make the older style contractor saws setup true and square. 20 bucks for the Pals Kit might be a stopgap until you get it figured out.

Used one of these on a neighbors saw some years ago and he has been happy ever since.

http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html

Regards,

Bill

Did you check the trunion alignment rods when you did your tuneup? What happened with that sub 1000 powermatic?

This is what happened with the tune-up: 1. Removed Belt 2. Cleaned off angle and elevation rods (screws)
3. Loosened trunnion bolts 4. Used dial indicator to line up blade with mitre slot 5. Tightened down trunnion bolts paying close attention to the dial indicator so as not to move the trunion. 6. Double checked alignment and then lowered blade to make a test cut. Rechecked with dial indicator and now it is out of alignment. I came to the conclusion that when I adjust the height of the blade, the blade is actually rocking side to side.

As for the Powermatic, the high bid on it is 850. Checked into a phase converter and priced one at 200.00. I am seriously considering driving to pick up that unisaw I was looking at for 1000.00.

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

The rocking sounds like it could be the 2 connecting bars being out of parallel. You should check that.

I was at an auction the other day. Not many attended and sadly I already had what they were selling which included but wasnt limited to

a Unisaw with several blades
a lathe with with a set of turning chisels
a bandsaw with extra blades
a stationary combo disk and belt sander
a grinder
a dust sucker
jointer
planer

I tried to call one of brothers who does this for a hobby but couldnt get ahold of him.

The whole meal deal sold for 1,300 buckaroos

Shakespeare once said that “Hell hath no furry then that of a woman scorned”. I wonder how many perfect marriages end in divorce where the woman is down right %$#@ off and cant wait to sell her “X’s brand new table saw for cheap.

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

I think that it’s recommended to only losen the trunion bracket towards the back of the saw first, then if you can’t get it aligned, losen the front bracket. But I don’t think it really matters, it sounds like your pretty set on geting a different saw. What ever you buy, make sure it has a good fence or that you have enough money left over to buy a good fence.

I’m actually not that excited about spending a big chunk of money. If I didn’t live on a budget, I would have already gone out and thrown a SawStop on a credit card. In fact, I removed the entire blade assembly today. I cleaned and inspected all the moving parts, and the only thing I could come up with is to throw another washer on that spring loaded bolt on the rear angle slide. When I tightened that bolt down, the slide seemed to have some play in it. Problem solved with an extra washer. Lo and Behold, when everything was reassembled, I am still having the same problem. I am just getting tired of working on this thing instead of enjoying it. Am I really wrong for wanting to buy a nice machine(Unisaw) used for $1000?????By the way, thanks for all the responses…...

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

You’re not wrong, but you have to be patient.

Thats hard to say, you never really told us which Craftsman Contractor’s saw you have, or posted any pictures of it. Also your not saying how close your geting the trunions aligned. I think some people take the alignment issue a little to the extreme, this is woodworking, not close tolerance metal working. A table saws main use is ripping, cutting miters is generally easier and more precisely done with a good miter saw.

Jay,
Why do you need 3hp? Sure its nice, but you should consider accuracy over power any day. My fave… http://www.cpowoodworking.com/table_saws/36-980.html. I have had this for 1 1/2 years and have neve regretted it.

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

I just got a SawStop contractor’s saw, and I’ll tell you, the quality of cut and the quality of the saw are A#1. I highly, highly recommend this saw to anyone.

-- Chip -- Manchester, Connecticut "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

My big reasons for upgrading from a contractor’s saw to a cabinet saw:

- Cabinet ply, melamine and MDF. I got tired of the contractor’s saw moving when I cut large items. SOME contractor’s saw, like the SawStop, are heavier than others. Heavy is good. My General has a very generous cast iron table, factory installed thickly cast wings, a massive trunnion mechanism, and an extremely heavy motor that tops 500 pounds.
- The next reason was dust collection. No contest there…
- I have my General 650 equipped with a 52” fence, and built into a large outfeed table. The long fence is handy not just for large sheets, but as a stop for multiple longer parts.
- Left tilt. I like left tilt saws, even if I need to reset my cursor.
- HEAVY saw mechanisms rip much more cleanly under stress.

In a smaller space, I’d put a melamine sheet on the saw and outfeed table and have it double as a large work surface before I’d go back to a smaller saw.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Woodchuck…

Do you know Mark Schwartz?

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Beech, the name doesn’t ring a bell, why do you ask ?

I spent several months working out Penn State Long Ranger issues with him with my JDS Cyclone.

Mark is a very helpful guy!

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Most of my dealings with PSI were with Ed Levy, the VP.

Jaykerz, I don’t know how close you live to woodwerks , but they are having a sale during their expo January 16th through the 18th. It might be worth your time to check it out. http://www.woodwerks.com/WWS_OCT09_ONLINE.pdf

-- Let's make some firewood!

Going back to your question, Jaykerz, yes, it is pretty hard to settle on a saw when you decide to take the plunge. You are just like most of us who started with a saw that would never give us what we wanted. I started with an Hitachi…... never again. Any way, I searched the web, read reviews and thought I’d go crazy. Finally, I said the hell with it and chose one. I’ve got a nice Grizzly and I really like it. I’m not saying that’s the saw you should choose, just saying make a choice. Customer service with any good dealer will take care of you, even if you don’t like what you picked out. Good luck.
-JJ

-- JJ...... I guess you could say I'm a 54 year old "juniorjock". — Make things with wood.

Jaykerz, I think I’ve settled on buying the SC 35685. I hope to drive down to woodwerks on Saturday to pick it up. They have a great deal going on right now on all steel city tools http://shop.woodwerks.com/specials.htm $849 for a 10” 3 HP 220, with 50 inch rails is quite the deal.

-- Let's make some firewood!

Well thats cool Boyne, we will will be waiting for pictures. No pic’s it didn’t happen.

Now that’s what I’m talking about. Do you know how long that sale is on for? I could go Saturday and pick one up.

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

Jaykerz, I just got off the phone with them a little bit ago. Shipping is reasonable to Ann Arbor (3 1/2 hours away) but I figured I might as well go down and check this place out. The guy said they have 2 in the store right now, and are expecting 15 more by semi today or tomorrow, so give them a call if you head out there before you buy it. He said they have a forklift there to help load it into your vehicle. Honestly I’d give them a call on their 800 number, the guy was more then helpful and gave me some no BS information.

Woodchuck, I’m familiar with your cliche “no pictures it didn’t happen”. Don’t worry I’ll be sure to message you with personal pictures of it.

-- Let's make some firewood!

Boyneskibum, I just got off the phone with them. I will be heading over there saturday to pick up my new Table Saw. Thank God the search is over. For this tool anyway. Thanks for the heads-up.

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

Glad I could help!! I might see you on Saturday then!

-- Let's make some firewood!

Ummmm, I think it’s a general forum cliche, not just mine. The saw your looking at is a hybrid with a larger motor.

Well…..other than the fact that it’s a 3hp, 220 it’s just like a hybrid…..right…. thanks for the input.

-- Let's make some firewood!

Just like a Hybrid ? No, it is a Hybrid. HP or volts have nothing to do with what type of saw it is.

Hybrids are usually 1 3/4 hp, and can operate on 110. Typically their trunnion mounting system is different as well, so I’d say they are different.

-- Let's make some firewood!

Yeah, you young guys got it all figured out, lol. Goodluck with your new saw.

Sorry, I wasn’t aware that the definition of a hybrid was different from generation to generation. You seem to be the only one who has it figured out. Thanks for the good luck wishes, I’ll let you know (by picture) how it turns out.

-- Let's make some firewood!

ENJOY your saws guys!. Take your time on setting them up. Work safe.
-JJ

-- JJ...... I guess you could say I'm a 54 year old "juniorjock". — Make things with wood.

I recently bought a Ridgid TS3660 from Home Depot for $499. I am very pleased with it. If someone handed me a couple of thousand dollars to play with, I may have considered something more expensive. But, I live in the real world. As with any power tool, I am convinced that at least 80% of the value and reliabililty of the tool is in how carefully you set it up and make sure the alignments and angles, etc are dead on. If you do, chances are you will get satisfaction from your efforts.

-- "non illegitimis carborundum"

Boyne, thats where yor wrong again, the trunions are cabinet mounted on the Steel City and the Craftsman Hybrid, they are both made by Orion, but the difference in the saw your looking at and a cabinet saw is the trunion itself. A true cabinet saws trunions are MUCH beefier than a Hybrids. And from what I can tell from pictures is that a cabinet saws cabinet looks wider and more stable. When you go down to Steel City’s showroom ask to see one of their Deluxe 10” cabinet saws and compare it to the one your thinking of buying. There is well over a 100 lb difference between the two, plus the Deluxe cabinet saw has a magnetic switch that is more commonly found on cabinet saws. The saw your looking at is a ok deal, but if you buy it, don’t assume that your walking away with a true cabinet saw.

What a great thread. I can’t add much that has not been said. I have walked in your shoes. Probably most of us have. It’s a lot of money and if you are consummed with ww’ing, a life changing decision. I didn’t know what accurate woodworking was until I bit the bullet. Bottom line – the 3hp cabinet saws from Grizzly and Steel City are an excellent value. I own the Grizzly 1023 right tilt and have used the Steel City. You can’t go wrong with either. The Delta and Jet contractor’s saws are also wonderful tools and are the staple of many many woodworking shops. If this is your pick, go with the cast iron extensions. I got real lucky and bought my Grizzly slightly used at a “you suck” price. It took a lot of time and patience, and I probably would not go through it again. In today’s economy, these new saws are going on sale at 25 to 35 percent off. Shop around and I bet you can buy an excellent saw for under $1000 including tax and shipping. The only other suggestion is to buy a high quality blade. I use the a blade and get glass smooth cuts. Even the best saw is only as good as the blade. And that’s a fact, Jack!

ps. build an outfeed table first thing. your saw cuts will thank you.

-- david roberts, houston area, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but that has never been a problem for me."

On second thought…..... Take a look at this http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products/35675/35675.pdf
That is a pretty “weak” looking trunion WHEN being compared to a Uni or PM. I know I don’t need the best of the best, but I do want to find a table saw that is going to last a LONG time. Going tonight to look at one locally. I’ll let you all know how it goes.

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

Yep, like I said before, it’s a Hybrid saw, not a true Cabinet saw. Steel City does sell true cabinet saws also, but they call them Deluxe Cabinet saws, the Hybrids they call Cabinet saws. I think that it’s funny that on the home page of their website they say : where quality rules the day, not sales gimmicks. I say B.S., call it what it is, a Hybrid. I use to think that Steel City could be a fairly good company and could possibly do well, but so far after seeing this decieveing sales tactic I think the only product I’d consider that they sell is the 17” drill press.

Boyne, this is for you. Just incase you truly don’t want to end up with a “Hybrid”. http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1492&articleID=501503
I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be a good TS, all I am saying is that I’m not in the market for a “Hybrd”, I want an “heirloom” saw. Just thought you might want to read this article before the money is spent.

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

And just think, I don’t get even as much as a simple thankyou for saveing your butt from makeing a expensive mistake. How stupid am I ? It makes me wonder somedays why I even bother.

Jaykerz, I think I’m going to stick with it… I just checked out a steel city at the local rockler store, then went and saw one in action at a guy’s house…looks pretty good. Good luck with your search!!

-- Let's make some firewood!

Boynes, I don’t think your really seeing the whole picture here, and I’m done explaining. Just buy the saw.

The whole picture? The picture here is that Jaykerz is going to buy a table saw that he wants to buy, I think I got that.

-- Let's make some firewood!

You think or you know ? lol. Which saw is he going to buy ?

Well….I don’t know….maybe jaykerz can post a picture of his thought process….after all no pic’s it didn’t happen. Lol, come on, give me a chuckle for that one. I like how you edit your previous posts after seeing my next reply….makes you look wise.

-- Let's make some firewood!

I edit them because sometimes it’s hard for me to describe things and I don’t allways get it right the first time, thats all. I’m thinkin he’s going for a used Unisaw.

I bought a Rigid TS 3650 about a year ago and I have been extremely happy with it. It lists for $549 at Home Depot but when I bought it, I applied for their credit card and got a 10% discount for that. Then I bugged the manager until he gave me an additional 10% discount. It’s only a 1.5 HP TS but I do a lot of outdoor projects and I’m always ripping such things as treated 4×4’s, etc. and it has never disappointed me. I’m really anal about alignment for my indoor projects… I took my time aligning it when I first got it. I check the alignment at least once a month and it is still spot on. I was worried about the quality of the fence on such an inexpensive saw but the fence is excellent. A couple of articles about the quality of the fence on such an inexpensive saw is what convinced me to buy it.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100608588

-- Randy, Louisiana

Well. Well. Well. I am happy to let you all know that the deal is done. I picked up a 8yr old PM66 for $750. I will post picks later tonight. The stars were definitely aligned on this deal. I stopped into my local Woodcraft to see if anyone had any experience with running a phase converter, and the owner told me they had this saw for sale. I went and looked at it Thursday and picked it up last night. The owner of the Woodcraft (FT. Wayne, IN) was awesome. He even threw in extra inserts, a blade and some push sticks. Anyway, thanks to everyone for following this thread(Again). Especially Woodchuck. I don’t really know how to take you yet buddy, but you sure do give me the motivation to investigate things a little more.

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

Jay, thats great to hear that things worked out so well for you. I can’t wait to see some pictures, and hear more about the saw. Don’t mind me, I’m just a tired old grumpy SOB thats going through some tough times.

Jaykerz…..........I am so excited for you and some what envious.In my opinion”for what its worth” you have just purchased the finest cabinet saw made as well as the last you will ever have to buy.There is a reason why there have been few changes to it since 1966.It does not have a lot of fancy gadgets to frustrate you and drive the cost up.It is a heavy saw with a monster trunion to give you sweet cuts and being that it is so popular you will have no problem getting help with any repairs or advice on it.Happy woodworking and to all I will say the tools help but ultimately it is less about the tool and more about the Craftsman.

-- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding......."

Congrats, man! I feel your pain on this whole thing, as I just changed my mind on the Delta and am now going a different direction…. Ohhhhhhhh the pain of making decisions like this!!

Again, congrats!!

Well, here it is. The moment you’ve all been waiting for.LOL Tell me what you think… Sorry for the link, I’m not quite sure how to put photos in the forum yet.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=1009585&imageID=10286520&MyToken=53ae5723-6fe1-48b9-953a-5582a3c928f1
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=1009585&imageID=10286794&MyToken=cfa8bbc0-2ffb-4742-9bac-275fd9f23ce9

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

Funny thing is, I don’t need to see the pics, I’ve already seen it before. Small world it is indeed.

Jeff

-- Jeff, Indiana

The saw I bought was the wrong saw…and I’m having to do workarounds, etc…I was looking for cheap when I should have dug deeply and spent. I’m reminded that we get what we pay for. I think that a large budget is necessary…and one must invest serious cash to get the best features and abilities…not a simple thing for every lumberjock. At the time I thought I was getting something that would work…little did I know. Now, I’m not looking because I ran out of cash…but the day will come. Good luck.

-- /\/\/\ BarryW /\/\/\ Stay so busy you don't have time to die.

jaykerz, couldn’t do anything with the links but congratulations.

BarryW, I know exactly what you’re saying. My first table saw purchase was a dud. I thought I was doing good and had gotten a great deal. After a year of fighting the beast, and beginning to fear for my life, I got rid of it and bought a real saw.

-JJ

-- JJ...... I guess you could say I'm a 54 year old "juniorjock". — Make things with wood.

I think you have to have a Myspace account to view the pictures. Jay, what works for me is I download the pictures into the Photobucket website, then copy the direct link for that picture, and paste it into Lumberjocks, then everyone can see the picture.

Here is the reply when I opened a Myspace account and tried to view the pictures. ( This photo cannot be viewed because it has either been deleted or marked as private by the user. ) Not good.

Let’s try this…
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp113/johiocity/tablesaw2.jpg
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp113/johiocity/tablesaw.jpg

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

Well it worked, but the pictures are really tiny and fuzzy when enlarged. Is it a single phase or 3 phase saw ?

Sorry about the picks, my first try… It is a single phase. 3HP.

-- Jaykerz----I refuse to waste anymore talent...

Jay that looks like a nice saw…cant go wrong with a Powermatic! Good luck with it…
Also to address some of the other comments..yes woodchuck the trunnions on a hybrid saw are less substantial than on a more expensive (that being the KEY phrase) true cabinet saw. That doesn’t meant its not a nice saw. In comparison to a contractors saw the hybrids construction is awesome! I have read several reviews, some from Fine Woodworking, giving hybrids from allot of manufacturers high marks.

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

Wow, nice saw. I love my Delta Contractors saw, but have my heart set on upgrading to a Cabinet saw in the next 10 yrs. This saw will serve you well for many years. And you found a good deal.

-- Just 'cause a cat has kittens in the oven, it don't make 'em biscuits.

Jay, if everything checks out ok, I’d say you came out like a bandit. Brad obviously missed my point, and alot of brands of Hybrids do not have cabinet mounted trunions.

START RANT
I didn’t miss your point woodchuck…Acording to you the trunnion is the only way to judge the worthiness of a tablesaw…if it doesn’t have cast iron battleship trunnions cabinet mounted, it’s a piece of junk . Funny..all this coming from a guy who works on a souped up contractors saw. You would think the way you spout off you own a million dollar sliding panel saw. And once you offer up your opinion, if anyone disagrees with you they are inexperienced or stupid. Forums are for offering opinions and information….I didn’t get the memo that your opinion and information rules over everyones..

And by the way, the only time I have ever seen that silly tag line “no picture, didn’t happen” is in your posts..I wouldn’t be so bold as to call it a forum cliché’ END RANT

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

Brad, obviously your STILL missing the point, and I don’t believe I have called anyone inexperienced or stupid. The tag line, well, call it who’s ever you wish, I know I didn’t start it, not that theres anything wrong with it or a Contractor’s saw. Let me guess, you own one of those what you call awesome Hybrids, LOL, or do you call it a Cabinet saw ? Take a pill.

OK before this turns into an insult fest let me tell you what I had gleaned from your comments…

You are insisting that “hybrid” is just a sales ploy that manufacturers use to sell an inferior product, based on a comparison to a cabinet saw. The point I was trying to make is they arnt trying to rip you off…its a completely different class of saw specifically designed to meet a price point. It is a step up from a contractors saw, but not quite as well built as a cabinet saw. Not everyone can afford the cost of a cabinet saw, but would like a little better quality and features than a contractors saw, and maybe aren’t as handy as you are in fixing up their saw so it performs better. Thats where the market for the “hybrid” saws comes in. Most of them have features and quality that is closer to a cabinet saw with better power and quality than a contractors saw, at a price point that people can afford..around $1000-$1500, compared to $2500-$3500 for a good cabinet saw. I own a contractors saw (Bosch 4000) and I like it…but it has it’s limits no matter how much I add onto it and buy for it. I can’t afford, nor have the room for a cabinet saw so the hybrid fits the bill for me and allot of other people. An like I said before, FWW did comprehensive reviews on all the major brands and overall they all perform well, and are solidly built, and will out perform any contractor saw. Do they measure up in a direct comparison to a cabinet saw? No..cause its a different class of saw, not meant to be compared…the cabinet saw has them beat hands down…but at a higher price and larger footprint usually.

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

I think the Bosch 4000 is considered as a Jobsite saw, not a Contractors saw. Some Hybrids have table mounted trunions, so how are those better than a Contractor’s saw ? But anyway, as before, you still missed my original point that I was trying to get across about Steel City.

Brad, You’re swinging a wide brush when talking about Hybrid saws, there is not set of specifications that they all meet.

This class of saws have been around a LONG time, Craftsman sold one made by Kind Seeley in the 50’s. However “hybrid” saws can have cabinet mounted trunions or table mounted trunions. They can have 1.5HP or 2 HP. Therefor the term Hybrid doesn’t mean anything.

This thread started with someone looking at USED cabinet saws for under 1000. Talking about Hybrids in the same breath seems a little silly.

Personally I’ll take my old Model 10 over any of the new Hybrids.

I agree Marc, but I would consider a Hybrid that has cabinet mounted trunions a Hybrid, the rest of the Hybrids are all an illusion. I’m also in no big hurry to sell my American made Contractor’s saw for an imported Hybrid.

I never said there was any specification that any of them meet..man talk about missing points….

I am just making a point about what the current manufacturers refer to as “hybrid”...thats all..Im not looking for a history lesson, or to dance around semantics between “jobsite” and “contractor” or to sit here and put table saw trunnions on an alter.
Your right about the thread..I apologise if my posts have hijacked it…I say again Jay good luck with your powermatic..it’s a great saw, hopefully it’s in good condition.

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

As I’ve said before, why do I bother ?

I recently did some research on table saws and posted the results on my blog. Check it out at http://www.woodworkingtipsandtools.com/2009/01/the-heart-and-soul-of-the-workshop-a-table-saw-review/

-- drbob at http://www.Woodworkingtipsandtools.com

I guess everyone has their own opinion. I feel that if the Contractor’s SawStop was the best Contractor’s saw, why is it that cast iron wings and a Beisemeyer fence cost extra ? Sorry, I don’t buy into the hype and scare tactics of SawStop.

drbob

GREAT job on the blog review. Thanks for putting all those reviews together and packaging them up nice and neat. I’m sure it will be benefical to many!

If you would stop putting your fingers near the spinning part you wouldn’t need a saw stop.