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Earlex 5500 tip/nozzle sizes?

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Forum topic by HobbyFinisher posted 03-07-2014 06:26 PM 1295 views 5 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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HobbyFinisher

5 posts in 199 days


03-07-2014 06:26 PM

Topic tags/keywords: earlex 5500 tipnozzle size spraying polyurethane

I have an Earlex 5500 with two tips/nozzles: 2.0 mm and 2.5 mm, and I am new to paint spraying.

Current Project, painting/finishing cabinets for the basement and garage.

I plan to spray General Finishes “Enduro Clear Poly” (waterborne polyurethane) on top of their milk paint. They recommend a tip between 1.09 (0.043”) and 1.30 (0.051”). They do not recommend thinning the Clear Poly.

http://generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-base-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers/waterbase-polyurethane-topcoat#.UxnZFmIo7RY

I plan to buy either a 1.0 or 1.5 mm tip to spray the Clear Poly. Is it better to have a tip that is a little smaller or a little bigger than recommended? I was thinking the 1.5 mm would be better, but that a 1.0 mm may be a better addition to my other tips.

Another question.
I bought the 2.5 mm tip to spray latex, but read on this site that folks are using 2.0 mm tip to spray latex. What is better for spraying latex, 2.0 or 2.5mm tip?

I know this is some trial and error and practice, but it may help to start with the optimal size tip.

Thanks,
JK


21 replies so far

View retfr8flyr's profile

retfr8flyr

210 posts in 327 days


#1 posted 03-07-2014 07:58 PM

I have the Earles 6900 and have used the 2.0 tip for latex paint and WB Poly with good results. You already have the 2.5 so go ahead ahead and try it with the latex, it should work fine. You will still need to thin the latex to spray it. With the Enduro I would try the 2.0 needle and see how it does. If it doesn’t work well you can always get the 1.5 needle.

-- Earl

View edr321's profile

edr321

5 posts in 199 days


#2 posted 03-07-2014 08:35 PM

I am not sure what color of milk paint you are going to use on your finish but there is a problem with dark milk paint colors and the Enduro Poly togeather. The milk paint on its own is solid as a rock and is darn near bullet proof but when top-coated with the Enduro Poly you can get a white blush when the finish comes into contact with just tap water or wiped with a wet rag. I went through a 3 month testing period with General Finishes to find a solution and there solution was to use shellac to cover the paint and use there Conversion Varnish. They may have reformulated and fixed the problem but I would test before you commit if using a dark color.

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2528 days


#3 posted 03-07-2014 08:42 PM

I am with EDR321 , The poly over the milk paint or any paint has issues, not a good combination. I have personally tested and retested it .. get another top coat or seal the paint in with shellac .

View HobbyFinisher's profile

HobbyFinisher

5 posts in 199 days


#4 posted 03-07-2014 09:24 PM

Perhaps worrying about the tip size is the least of our problems. Thanks for the reply retfr8flyr.

Thanks EDR321 and CharlesNeil, I think.

I talked with the folks at general finishes before purchasing the product, and this combination was their recommendation. We are using Persian Blue with a Black Glaze. I was going to use their “high performance poly,” but they recommended the “Enduro Clear Poly.”

I assume you are the Charles Neil from Woodcraft. As a Woodcraft customer, I would have bought from you if the paint was sold in gallons. Is that why Woodcraft does not sell “Enduro clear Poly (I could not find it on the website)?

Does General Finishes’ “high performance poly” have the same problem? Would you combine milk paint and the “high performance poly”?

I ordered the product from General Finishes and it was supposed to ship today. It appears General Finishes may be aware of the problem. If there is a high probability of this combination failing, I do not want to waste time testing. I am going to call them to see if there is a way to resolve this or avoid potential issues.

Everything I read indicated the General Finishes is a high quality product.

Thanks,
JK

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CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2528 days


#5 posted 03-07-2014 09:41 PM

Hobby, yep Im the same Charles Neil, I have to go but will pick this up in the am ,also Edr321 is one of my subscribers and he went thru exactly what your “fixin” to do and it was a nighmare, I can and will help you with all of this. Just hang tight… We will answer all your issues , BTW ED321, is pretty sharp, heed his advice. (:

View Earlextech's profile

Earlextech

979 posts in 1348 days


#6 posted 03-07-2014 09:57 PM

In general the finer the needle/tip = the finer the finish.
1.0 for automotive or musical instrument type finishes, think 10 coats of lacquer or more.
1.5 for furniture, cabinetry or trim.
2.0 general purpose, paint a wall, deck or fence.
2.5 usually quantity, not quality.
These are guidelines. The more you know about the rules the easier it is to break them with success.

-- Sam Hamory - The project is never finished until its "finished"!

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2528 days


#7 posted 03-07-2014 10:03 PM

How ya doing Sam … ?

View Earlextech's profile

Earlextech

979 posts in 1348 days


#8 posted 03-07-2014 10:04 PM

Great Charles, I thought you were leaving. LOL

-- Sam Hamory - The project is never finished until its "finished"!

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2528 days


#9 posted 03-07-2014 10:35 PM

Trying Sam, Emails out the kazoo,,, Hate to wake up to 50 emails, but it happens, BTW folks , Sam is pretty sharp as well on this finishing thing, might want to lend an ear,,,

View edr321's profile

edr321

5 posts in 199 days


#10 posted 03-07-2014 11:23 PM

Since you asked. I am a professional and do this for a living and I did the exact thing same thing you did I called and asked and got the same advice you did. To make a long story short I had to respray the project 3 times under their guidance before I said enough is enough and got Charles involved(not to mention that these cabinets went into a 3/4 of a million dollar house with a high end designer involved. Then I spent 3-4 months testing every possible combination of there products I could think of. I have lost over $3,600 just in re-spraying not to mention all the testing i did on my own trying to figure out what was going on. The company swept me under the rug saying that its a black finish(which is historically problematic) and that their testing standings meets KCMA protocol. Ironically the KCMA doesn’t even know who they are and the KCMA does not certify finishes. In the end I only asked them to reimburse me for 1200.00 dollars and there response was we just don’t do that and offered me 1200 dollars in product. I did tell them that I would take the deal but I have never ordered anything from them. I guess this post means I won’t get anything. Whoops! I am out of time and will answer your questions in the morning about what works and what does not work. Just thought you would like to know how I was treated.

View killerb's profile

killerb

150 posts in 1056 days


#11 posted 03-07-2014 11:31 PM

I can back up everything Eric is saying as well. General Finishes plain screwed with him. The product will cause issues. I found the same thing with some work I did. Yes I build furniture for a living as well and sell lumber. I will back any honest company, but what they did to Eric was wrong. They will tell you lots of things. Until you try it for yourself and find out different. I would not use this product again. I was trying to support a company from Wisconsin. My mistake. I use ML Campbell products. Just will not go back.

-- Bob www.bobkloes.com

View retfr8flyr's profile

retfr8flyr

210 posts in 327 days


#12 posted 03-07-2014 11:36 PM

Wow!! I guess I will stick with Target finishes from now on. Don’t mean to hijack your thread JK but t I have a question for Sam that you may be interested in also.

Sam I really like my 6900 and I will be using some Target EM6000 on a project, as soon as it warms up. I have both the 1.0 and the 1.5 needle and was planning on using the 1.5 needle with the EM6000. Do you think that is the best choice with this product, or would the 1.0 work better?

-- Earl

View edr321's profile

edr321

5 posts in 199 days


#13 posted 03-08-2014 02:24 AM

Okay to answer your questions. This is my own personal testing data and yours my vary and I would strongly suggest doing your own testing. These test were done with the top coat straight over the milk paint no sanding sealer or shellac. I tested them with various dying times ranging from 24hrs to a 7 day cure to 14 day cure. I then put standing water on them and wiped it clean with times ranging from 5-30 min to overnight. One caveat these problems do not occur with their dyes(except the enduro poly over a black dye and the rosewood stain/dye) My personal test data did not match that of GF at least that was what I was told. There was a lot of talk about recovery times meaning a product that would blush but would recover in a give time period. Mine never recovered except for the Conversion Varnish. They claimed to have had the best luck with Tinted Poly with the Conversion Varnish over the top. I did not try that combination.

High Performance(Blushes)
Pre-Cat Urethane(Blushes if standing water left on over 15 min Period)
Enduro Poly(Blushes)
Enduro Tinted Poly(Blushes)
Enduro Tinted Poly with Enduro Poly Top Coat(Blushes)
Enduro Conversion Varnish(Blushes if tested in a 24hr Period almost no blush if let cure for 7 days)
GF Sanding Sealer(Blush)
Milk Paint Alone(No Blush)
Kem Aqua Plus(No Blush)

I also tested everyone of these with a cheap Black Latex Paint(the blushing was significantly less than with the milk paint and in some cases almost un-noticed.

High Performance(no blush) This one I am going to test again but my initial tests indicated no blush.
Pre Cat Urethane(Blush if left on for more than 30min)
Enduro Poly(Blush)
Kem Aqua Plus(No Blush)

Then I stumbled upon the idea of using shellac to seal the paint but at this point I was over all the testing but here is where I left things. On these I used a one pound cut of shellac to seal between the milk paint and used the same tests above.

Pre-Cat Urethane(one pound Cut of shellac) If let dry for 7 days it would blush but would recover in 10-15min
Enduro Poly(still blushed no recovery)
Kem Aqua Plus(No Blush)

There final solution for me was as follows

1 coat of milk paint
1 coat of shellac
1 coat of sanding sealer
2 coats of Enduro Conversion finish

Hope this helps. My opinion is go with the Kem Aqua Plus if you are using a dark milk paint(their milk paint is awesome to spray it lays out super nice) your good if you are using their products with dyes with the exception of the rosewood in which I would use a 1 pound cut to seal it from bleeding though the top coat. Also they may have by this time fixed the issue by reformulating the Enduro Poly but you have to TEST IT TEST IT PLEASE!!! Don’t ever use a new product without testing it first. Also Charles said he has had good luck with the Enduro Var as long as you let it dry 6-8hrs between coats however he has not tried it over paint. Since he hasn’t I will be the tester this weekend and follow up on that one. Over and Out.

View HobbyFinisher's profile

HobbyFinisher

5 posts in 199 days


#14 posted 03-08-2014 03:29 AM

Okay with an on-topic hijack retfr8flyr.

Sam, based on your reply it sounds like I can go with a 1.5mm tip regardless of the finishing product. I thought the tip was based more on the product an atomization than type of job.

It also sound like the 2.5mm will get little use, maybe primer.

Thanks for your previous response.
JK

View HobbyFinisher's profile

HobbyFinisher

5 posts in 199 days


#15 posted 03-08-2014 03:32 AM

Wow is right, retfr8flyr.

I called General Finishes and the order has been shipped. I mentioned the issues and they claim, as expected, that there are no issue with my combination.

That is some extensive and impressive testing edr321. Why would you expend so much effort with a product that was not performing well?

I did some on-line research before buying the products, and everyone indicated that General Finishes provides a high quality products. Woodcraft sells it and promotes it in videos, but Charles Neil is not recommending my combination. I bought the Earlex in part based on Neil’s and Woodwhisper’s videos.

Maybe the light “Persian Blue” will not blush as much as black. The cabinets are going in the garage and basement workroom.

From where I sit with product in hand and little experience, I need to decide what to do. I need to digest this info. Sounds like the worst case scenario is that I need another topcoat. No one is discouraging using GF milk paint.

Does anyone have a good experience with General Finishes Enduro Clear poly?

Thanks for all the input,
JK

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