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Forum topic by Sirgreggins posted 03-06-2014 03:31 PM 834 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Sirgreggins

298 posts in 1703 days


03-06-2014 03:31 PM

I’m looking replicate this clock. Should I worry about movement of the middle piece, which holds the clock? It’s about a 4”x4” piece. Also, would you use M&T, dowels or countersunk screws to hold this in place?


14 replies so far

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3025 posts in 1265 days


#1 posted 03-06-2014 03:41 PM

I’d use M&T. I know that is the usual response from folks on here for a joint, but I think it would be easier to do. Long stub tenon a little short of the overall length on the inside piece with corresponding mortice. You’d have a little play to make sure it is vertically centered.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View Snipes's profile

Snipes

99 posts in 1712 days


#2 posted 03-06-2014 03:57 PM

Yes, place in dado. fake tenon if desired

-- if it is to be it is up to me

View jumbojack's profile

jumbojack

1667 posts in 2092 days


#3 posted 03-06-2014 04:07 PM

1) Edge banded veneered ply if you are worried about movement.
2) Full dado and ‘float’ the panel. Run a bead of silicone in the dado so the panel does not rattle.

-- Made in America, with American made tools....Shopsmith

View FellingStudio's profile

FellingStudio

93 posts in 1150 days


#4 posted 03-06-2014 04:11 PM

If that middle board is maple, and is 12” wide, I would allow for about 1/8” of seasonal movement in my design.

http://woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl

Looking at the pictured clock, the original designer allowed for movement by fastening the face board to the frame with through tenons that are probably not glued allowing the face to float in the frame. Dowels would allow for movement in the same way that the tenons do, screws might end up torn out (although it would probably not fall apart, rather the face would become loose.)

Edit to add: if you simply rotate the orientation of the grain on the face board by 90 degrees, the movement of the face board is not relevant. It won’t be pushing on anything. Your joinery will be a little bit different, probably floating tenons (not through tenons) in a mortise that has a little space on either end.

-- Jesse Felling - http://www.fellingstudio.com

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

115207 posts in 3045 days


#5 posted 03-06-2014 04:33 PM

I agree with the through tenon Idea ,just don’t glue the maple tenons and leave and 1/8”- 3/16”gap overall on the maple,that should handle your wood movement.
An alternative is to have grooves in the sides for the maple to expand into.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View jumbojack's profile

jumbojack

1667 posts in 2092 days


#6 posted 03-06-2014 06:00 PM

With the grain oriented as pictured you will either have a gap to compensate for movement or a gap will appear depending on the materials moisture. Turn the material so the movement is not trying to push the sides apart.

-- Made in America, with American made tools....Shopsmith

View Dallas's profile

Dallas

3599 posts in 1955 days


#7 posted 03-06-2014 06:25 PM

An alternate thought here:
If the center piece is 4” there isn’t going to be much movement.
I would use fake tenon caps on the outside and as A1Jim said, a groove to slide the maple into.

(BTW, a groove goes with the grain, a dado goes across the grain). I think. I could be wrong. Maybe.

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2281 posts in 1837 days


#8 posted 03-06-2014 06:31 PM

I agree with Jim and Dallas on the groove idea. If you were concerned with the panel rattling or being uncentered, you could put some SpaceBalls or foam or something in the grooves. For the rest of the clock frame, I would use mortise and tenon.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7935 posts in 1848 days


#9 posted 03-06-2014 06:36 PM

I agree with rotating the center 90d and not having to worry about movement but in reality the movement across 4” will be irrelevant. You can use whatever joinery you want but the original appears to have through M&T or false M&T.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Sirgreggins's profile

Sirgreggins

298 posts in 1703 days


#10 posted 03-06-2014 06:40 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. I’m definitely going to make the tenon caps purely aesthetic. I’m going to make several prototypes. Poplar first, then i’ll move to the good stuff. Mahogany, bubinga, walnut, cherry, etc.

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7935 posts in 1848 days


#11 posted 03-06-2014 08:48 PM

Is this something you even need to prototype? Unless you’re going into production I wouldn’t bother. It’s 5 rectangles, one with a curve.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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Sirgreggins

298 posts in 1703 days


#12 posted 03-06-2014 10:15 PM

not so much because of complexity. Making the M&T’s and the curve is easy stuff. What i’m looking into is experimenting with whats the most efficient way to do these things. i plan on trying to make quite a few. I guess i dont really need to

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2281 posts in 1837 days


#13 posted 03-07-2014 12:43 AM

If you’re looking to make quite a few, I’d recommend making jigs to route your mortises and cutting parts for a whole bunch a the same time.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7935 posts in 1848 days


#14 posted 03-07-2014 03:04 AM

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