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Forum topic by Tom posted 171 days ago 1110 views 0 times favorited 32 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Tom

171 posts in 346 days


171 days ago

Wondering your guys opinions on these 2 saws. 1 is a Powermatic 65, it currently has a 3 phase motor and it’s up for $350, no fence, the other is a Jet JWTS-10 (708471) with some type of fence upgrade (I think) for $400.

As many of you know I want to upgrade from a Dewalt DW744 mainly due to small table size and the main stuff I cut is 4/4 hard maple, bubinga, walnut… not to many softwoods, the 744 does this but not very well in my experience.

My budget just went up some and I plan on getting an incra fence in the not to distant future to server as the TS and a router fence.

I can not find much on this Jet saw, only the same model # but with the motor enclosed on the case, the one here has the motor hanging off the back. I had considered getting a saw stop contractors saw as well but I don’t want to pay a premium as I don’t need the fence, I just need to accurately cut with enough power stuff like above mainly for hobby projects like cutting boards and a few furniture items I am building around the house. I need 110 now with the ability to go 220 this summer. The Powermatic above I found a motor for that would cost around $200-$300 which can do that putting that one at around $650 total, problem is I can find tons on a PM66, not as much on the 65.

Since my budget went up it did put some saws into reach I could not get before, I am closer to the $800 to $1,000 range but it seems it’s either the $529 Ridgid or your over $1,000… in the new market so if there are decent saws I cannot find them, my local rockler and woodcraft only have a couple all are well over $1,000.

I would like to do something like the saw station on the image if I don’t get cabinet style…

I really appreciate all the help you guys have given me so far… please be patient with me I am just learning.

-- --Tom - Saint Francis, WI


32 replies so far

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Pezking7p

1070 posts in 277 days


#1 posted 171 days ago

It’s a tossup. If you’re fine doing the refurb work and spending more on the motor/fence, I’d get the PM for the power. But my 1.5 HP delta contractor saw rips 8/4 cherry just fine with a thin kerf. I wish I had another 1.5 HP but that’s just being hopeful.

-- -Dan

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freddy1962

700 posts in 174 days


#2 posted 171 days ago

Powermatic for sure. Quality saw and should look good cleaned with your new fence. Sell the 3ph motor or put a VFD on it to convert to single phase. Go to owwm.org and them guys will give you info on the 65 and guidance on a VFD. You could also sell the 3ph motor on BOYD there.

-- JEFF Illinois (Banks of the Mississippi)

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Tom

171 posts in 346 days


#3 posted 171 days ago

also are these a right or left tilt – I cannot tell… and the owners were not sure.

-- --Tom - Saint Francis, WI

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runswithscissors

904 posts in 651 days


#4 posted 171 days ago

The powermatic appears to be left tilt. I think a phase converter converts single phase to 3 phase, so you’ll still have the advantages of 3 phase—not the other way around.

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Tom

171 posts in 346 days


#5 posted 171 days ago

Anyone know of any “gotcha’s” when buying an older saw? The only thing other than hear it run to do that I can think is to make sure there are no cracks in any of the castings and to try and wiggle anything a bearing might ride on.

-- --Tom - Saint Francis, WI

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knotscott

5417 posts in 2001 days


#6 posted 171 days ago

From what I can tell the Jet looks to be one of their basic contractor saws with steel wings. The Microglide fence isn’t much of an upgrade. It was initially introduced on their $900 Super Saw 12 or 13 years ago….it got a lot of complaints for not being suitable for a saw in that price range. They started offering it on their cheaper saws shortly after. Right tilt. $400 for that package isn’t much of a deal….$250-$300 seems more appropriate to me.

OTOH, the PM has a ton more potential….more work for sure, but is a much beefier saw. Left tilt. Vintagemachinery.org or OWWM.org should be able to offer some info for you.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View generic's profile

generic

84 posts in 224 days


#7 posted 171 days ago

I just upgraded my tablesaw and it sounds like I went through the same things you are going through. I wanted something in nice shape, but didnt have the budget to buy a new cabinet saw. I found many rough looking used cabinet saws that looked like they had seen a lot of use (and abuse) and they made me nervous. And the thought of messing around with swapping out a 3ph motor just seemed expensive. I was patient and kept watching Craigslist and Yakaz for a nice used cabinet saw. While it wasn’t cheap, I ended up finding a Grizzly G7209 within your price range mentioned above. It is a bigger than I was originally looking for (14” vs 10”) but the larger table size (48”x38”) is really nice. Besides a little sawdust, it looked almost like new and the factory fence that came on it is great.

My advice would be to be paient and keep looking. If you have a smartphone, there is a craigslist app that allows you to search multiple areas at once and it will also give you a notification when a new ad is placed.

View Tom's profile

Tom

171 posts in 346 days


#8 posted 171 days ago

wow generic, that looks like a beast! no way I could fit that bugger but for that price it would be tempting to try.

I plan on passing on the Jet because I respect knotscott’s opinion and I would prefer not to get right tilt, the PM however I think I will see if I can get him to come down a bit and if he does I will scoop that up if I think it’s in good enough shape to deal with, if not I will keep looking. At least after looking around I found a saw I think would be ideal which is a PM1000, I really like that saw but way out of my price range. I am considering a couple new Steel City’s – the 35950 or the 22116 at $799 and $750 respectively my only issue with those is I have not heard much about them. Likely the search will continue, in an odd way it is fun and I am learning a lot as I go and this site and users have been amazing helping me, particular thanks go to knotscott.

-- --Tom - Saint Francis, WI

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generic

84 posts in 224 days


#9 posted 171 days ago

Its definitely a beast. With its 5 1/8” cutting depth and 5 hp motor, it will rip right through a old oak 4×4 in one pass without any trouble. It was interesting though getting the 900+ pound saw down into the basement. It was a tight fit, but worth it.

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mantwi

312 posts in 522 days


#10 posted 171 days ago

The Powermatic model 65 was manufactured with a 3 phase 1 1/2 hp motor not a 3 horsepower motor. If you lay out the cash for a phase converter you will get more than adequate performance out of the saw. I don’t know if you can fit a larger motor in the saw, there is a substantial difference in the size of a 1 1/2 hp compared to a 3 hp.
Grizzly has a static phase converter that will operate from 1 to 4 horsepower that cost about $180.00 plus shipping. If you go that route by the time you pay for the converter and the fence upgrade you could have bought a new G1023. The Jet saw always got high ratings in the wood mags product testing and based on my experience with Jet machinery (have owned a shaper and an XL10 cabinet saw) they do make decent equipment. If a new saw is out of reach and you only do this as a hobby the Jet would likely serve you well. I’d take Knotscott’s advice on the offer.

View Tom's profile

Tom

171 posts in 346 days


#11 posted 171 days ago

Thanks for the info mantwi, good info there – I found a motor that will run on 110 and can be re-wired for 220 for the PM, I will not have 220 until this summer so that is probably the way I would go with that, I am in contact with the seller of the PM, already informed the Jet seller I would take a pass as on the Jet he is firm at $350.

I have seen several belt driven craftsman contractor saws with the cast iron tops and cast iron slotted wings (if that’s what they are called) anywhere from $100 to $300, I know little about those but from what I have read if you replace the fence they are pretty decent saws, there is a 3HP in Janesville right now in good shape for $125, calling him on that now.

From all my searching, reading etc I think I finally have a game plan which is to either keep my dewalt dw744 and pickup something like that PM and refurb it (I think it will actually be fun) and once done sell my dewalt or sell the dewalt and pickup one of those craftsman or maybe even the R4512 and refurb something like that PM… and then sell the “temporary” saw. It helps that my better 1/2 just gave me the go ahead for the Incra TSLS router package so a fence won’t be an issue for me… I think this will be my best option.

-- --Tom - Saint Francis, WI

View jd53's profile

jd53

44 posts in 200 days


#12 posted 171 days ago

Been reading your posts, sound like what I’ve been going thru lately. I’ve pretty much decided on steel city or grizzly. Few weeks back I was unsure of steel city as a company but have recently contacted them again and been pleased with very quick answers to my questions. Just some info for you on the steel city 22116, it is the identical saw to the craftsman 22116. Plenty of good reviews on it. I’m still up in the air on the granite top tho. If you want to see a picture of it go to woodwerks.com, its a blue promo saw that they have a few of. The top is a little different, I believe, in that the miter slots are milled into the top whereas their other tops when the wings attach the slot is made. Been some complaints with problems getting the slots adjusted.

View Tom's profile

Tom

171 posts in 346 days


#13 posted 171 days ago

I have decided to nix the older craftsman or contractor saw idea’s mainy due to safety items missing and I really have more I can spend than those. I am leaning toward taking a risk on the ridged and if I get a good one, I am probably all set and saved some cash, if I don’t then I wasted a few hours but learned how a saw goes together… I have read with the R4512 that you can take them in for service if you have that issue, I have no heard what the results are if you have to do that… it would be nice to know what and how they fix those…

If Grizzly had a 10 or 20% sale right now I would get the G0715P in an instant, but at $900+ with shipping that I am not comfortable with… $700 I would order it right now….

Searching can be frustrating and fun all at the same time.

-- --Tom - Saint Francis, WI

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jd53

44 posts in 200 days


#14 posted 171 days ago

I ordered a grizzly catalog and on the back of it is a 5% off code. I think their having a spring/summer sale in April also.

View mantwi's profile

mantwi

312 posts in 522 days


#15 posted 171 days ago

That sounds like a good idea. Refurbing old machines is a great way to go. I had a complete shop at one time but due to an injury let everything go. Now 14 years later I have started rebuilding. Just to get my feet wet I picked up a little BT 3000 for $125.00. Then I got an old G1023 and restored it. I replaced the motor ($325.00) and put a Vega Pro40 fence on it (175.00 on sale from Amazon) and have a good cabinet saw for under $700.00. I got $100.00 out of the BT3000 and I’d already earned many times it’s cost using it. Restoring the old Grizzly was a learning experience for sure but I enjoyed it and my confidence about machine repair is strong now. It kinda makes the saw feel more like mine if you know what I mean. Happy hunting.

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