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After Separator but Before Impeller connections?

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Forum topic by Holbs posted 02-28-2014 12:36 AM 852 views 0 times favorited 9 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Holbs

1377 posts in 1494 days


02-28-2014 12:36 AM

getting my HVAC parts for the Thien Baffle project. I originally was going to relocate the blower from being vertical on it’s Grizzly stand to horizontal above the Thein Baffle chamber. I “thought” the outlet arms to the 2 filter bags were joined by square joints, but they are rectangular. Which means, since i rotate the motor 90 degrees from vertical to horizontal, so too are the outlet arms, so too would the bags.. which means I would have to rotate the bags back to vertical.. but the rectangular unions will not match up anymore. Grrrr….So now the idea is to keep the Grizzly on the floor where it is.

Thought about 7” round flex.. but WOW. $120+ for 10’. I looked around to see how other’s connected their separator to dust collector. I see lots of flex hoses 4”-7” popping out vertical and a direct beeline to the dust collector down at floor level, incurring 2 very sharp 90 degree bends, which I thought was a no no ?

My possible solution is to install 2 7” 90 degree adjustable elbows for the top bend, followed by 3 or 4 feet of straight 7” duct, then a single 7” 90 degree adjustable elbow into the impeller fan. I called my local HVAC supplier and the 7” adjustable 90 degree elbows are $3 a piece. These elbows have a more gracious bend to them, are not corrugated, total price would be $20 instead of $100+, oh… and this will allow me to put in a 7”x 7” x 7” wye in case I wanted a branch to vent outside in warm weather and a branch to the filter bags/canisters.

I know any adjustable elbows will leak so I am prepared with lots of HVAC sealing tape :)

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"


9 replies so far

View The Box Whisperer's profile

The Box Whisperer

678 posts in 1535 days


#1 posted 02-28-2014 12:43 AM

I ran into the exact same issue on a much smaller scale, bieng that my DC is 1.5hp and the outlet is 4”. I found a place that sold high end flex with smooth interior by the foot. I used the smallest piece possible while keeping a gentle slope, to make the 90 to the top of my cyclone lid. I wanted to flip the motor, but the rectangle made me decide not too.

-- "despite you best efforts and your confidence that your smarter and faster than a saw blade at 10k rpm…. your not …." - Charles Neil

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Holbs

1377 posts in 1494 days


#2 posted 02-28-2014 12:46 AM

4” hose is ALOT cheaper than 7” hose :) I was considering doing some engineering to match up the rectangular unions.. but I started getting a headache and knew I best find a better answer.
Do you have pictures of your DC setup?

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1432 posts in 2228 days


#3 posted 02-28-2014 01:41 AM

For my part, I had to re-engineer my HF DC system at the collector end. I originally had the DC in the horizontal, and after about 6 months it started to moan and groan. I thought maybe it was the bearings, since the HF DC is originally mounted vertical on its stand. So, I remounted it vertical, rearranged the hose parts – and it quit groaning. The hose should connect to the Thien collector, then out of the collector to the DC impeller, then to the bag or filter. I removed the DC inlet screen, since the chunks would not be going through the impeller, as the chunks will fall into the Thien.

-- BOVILEXIA: The urge to moo at cows from a moving vehicle.

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Holbs

1377 posts in 1494 days


#4 posted 02-28-2014 01:45 AM

ah…so changing blower motor from vertical to horizontal had bad mechanical results for you. there is not much out there to find about people who do this and how the motor is months later.
good info, jim.

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

View changeoffocus's profile

changeoffocus

457 posts in 1082 days


#5 posted 02-28-2014 08:26 AM

After reading Jimbo4’s reply I’m glad I installed my HF fan set with motor horizontal. I am firm believer in making things mechanical serviceable. Above are pictures of the duct sealer I use and the internals (hidden) part of my dust collector application.
I’m using it but need to finish painting the “skin” before posting my work.
The vortex section of the DC sets below fan set on the Thien baffle .
I did not like having to go through a lot of hassle to empty the bin so I created a sealed cabinet for the dust bin at the bottom of this stack.
Dimensions are roughly 24” wide, 27” deep and 48” high.
The depth encroaches on the adjoining garage and looks like a cabinet with a grille for ventilating the motor.
The discharge goes outside in my application and is shown on the left. It penetrates a brick wall and is presently disguised as a dryer vent.
The effect of the air flow from the discharge hitting the mulch was hilarious .
I like all the high end cyclones but I just do not have the room. I use that duct sealer instead of tape . I’ve used it for years and it’s great for all kinds of sealing applications. It is paintable and is water soluble (no fumes when wet)
This stuff sells retail for around $20.00 per tub and it goes a long way. I have no vested interest in the product.
I hope this addresses some of the items in your post.
RMC

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Holbs

1377 posts in 1494 days


#6 posted 02-28-2014 02:44 PM

$20 for the tub.. I’ll have to find it. I opted for snap duct instead of spiral (well…. I found a couple pieces of spiral I’ll use up) because have read since not laser welded, more likely to have an air leak and more pain in butt to seal.
I like the separated chambers, especially for the motor. hmm.. gives me ideas of sound control as well.

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

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changeoffocus

457 posts in 1082 days


#7 posted 02-28-2014 03:15 PM

I got that price right off the internet, we keep it in stock so I did not know the cost. The same story on the spiral I used on the other system.
Don’t feel bad about changing direction on your project, in the short 68 days I’ve been on this site I’ve completely turned the direction I was heading in my downsized shop around based on all the wealth of information I’ve found on LJ.
I’ve spent the bulk of that time on the air cleaner, DC and shop layout but it will be worth it.
I’ll leave with one rule of thumb I’ve used in our trade: Double the pipe size quadruple the flow
Increase the pipe size one increment double the flow

Good luck on your project.

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1432 posts in 2228 days


#8 posted 02-28-2014 05:11 PM

Plus, when I reoriented the DC back to vertical it seemed to operate more efficiently – go figure. Maybe the bearings were distorting and heating up causing a low drag on the system ?

-- BOVILEXIA: The urge to moo at cows from a moving vehicle.

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Holbs

1377 posts in 1494 days


#9 posted 03-01-2014 12:26 AM

bought the grey stuff for sealing with what they had on the shelf and recommended. $7 for it.
i also bought 4 of the 7” 90 degree adjustable elbows and a 7”x7”x7” wye (on order…should arrive in a week or two), 5 tooth crimper, a couple grey stuff brushes: all for $40. sure is nice to have a buddy at a HVAC supply house :) scary to think of the $$$ invested if i went to HD or such for these parts.
I bought the 7” wye incase I want the option to vent directly outside during warm weather or into bag/filters during cold weather.

-- Yes, my profile picture is of a Carpenter Bee! The name is derived from the Ancient Greek "wood-cutter"

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