Trouble Routing Sharp V Grooves

Does it vibrate? How big is the bit and shank? Is the collet clean?

-- Scott - Chico California http://chicowoodnut.home.comcast.net

What is the brand/number of the bit?

What type of wood and how deep is the V-groove? Are you using a Router Table?

The bit is an Amana 45deg, 1/2 shank, insert type. Yes, I’m using a router table—good fence, but the rest is crap. Wood is a hardwood. V-groove is only about 5mm deep. I’m not noticing any vibration. Other questions? Ideas? Thanks!

Hmmm,

If there is no runnout and the bit is running true then I’m out of ideas. As for slowing the RPM with a voltage regulator, can’t help you there either; my Bosch has variable speed. IME slower speeds are for bigger bits.

-- Scott - Chico California http://chicowoodnut.home.comcast.net

Your not taking off much material….maybe make a couple of passes. Is the run out consistant all the way down the board?

How about using your table saw and setting a dadoe blade at a 45 deg angle.

One thought I had was are you using a featherboard to hold the stock tight to the fence? I have found that this improves my pieces when I make molding, especially on longer pieces where I am having to reset my grip on the piece to keep it moving.

-- With God's help all things are possible- even woodworking. Woodworking is not just a hobby, it is an (expletive deleted) expensive hobby.

Regarding dadoe at 45deg suggestion… the groove I need is 45deg, not 90 deg (two 45’s). I’m thinking your idea would cut a 90deg groove (layed over on a 45). Or did I miss something?

Here’s what I was saying.
[IMG]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh205/bentlyj/dadoecut.jpg

Have you tried this- do a stationary plunge cut. Don’t move the work piece. Shut off the router. Check the bottom of the hole. Is it a point or is it “flattened”?

The reason I ask is, even though the router bit comes to a point when it viewing from one position, if you turn the bit 90 degrees and view the “point” it will be wider due to the thickness of the carbide cutter. This may be causing the problem.

Just a thought.

Lew

If the bit comes to a point, if there is no run out, then it seems to me that it boils down to vibration.

Vibration could come from:
1. The router to table connection
2. The whole table or parts thereof. You mentioned that it is cheap table. May be that the “flat” surface is “oil canning.”
3. The stock.

Even though every thing seems solid at rest, things change a lot with a bit spinning at 20K rpm. Even though you can’t feel it, there could still be some vibration.

My guess is that the stock is vibrating due to the action of the bit on it. I’d try the following in the order listed.:
1, Evaluate how you are controlling the stock.
2. Feed at a faster rate
3. Slow the rpm down with a speed control.

Another experiment would be to make a cut on a piece of scrap with a handheld router. (Different router or take the one you have out of the table..) If the problem goes away, then wouldn’t it have to be the table and/or stock control?

-- Joe

I would agree with Joe. There is probably some slop in where your router base attaches to the router table.

-- Those that say it can't be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Thanks for all the thoughts. I still believe it is some form of vibration either in the tool or in the table. I’ll try some of the thoughts provided. Some more info… I believe that I can see the wobble when the bit is spinning free at speed (mounted in the table). For note, it’s a porter-cable router turning at 27K and the bit is rated to 25K. Does anyone know a way to slow this down to 20K i.e. like via a rheostat? One test I’m thinking of is to run some thicker stock through it. Thanks again.

Rockler has a speed control for $50.00. (If your PC doesn’t have a soft start.) Don’t try to use a rheostat even if you could find one with enough wattage.

PS – With all due respect I don’t think you can see a bit wobble at 27K.

-- Joe

Thanks Joe. Maybe “wobble” is the wrong term. I can see that the tip, though a blur, is rounded over, like the cut I’m getting.

As mentioned above, I think it is impossible to get a perfect “V” groove with this type of bit.

The more I think about it, I think Lew is right.

-- Joe

OK. I did a couple of tests, and seem to have confirmed my need to slow the rpms. When I feed thicker stock, I get the same flat tip or valley in my groove. However, if I feed it really fast, enough to noticably slow the router, the valley narrows. Anyone disagree?

As they say – One test is worth a thousand opinions. So what is your next step? – purchase a speed control or fiind out what is shaking?

Did you ever try Lew’s suggestion of making a stationary plunge cut to see if the hole is indeed pointed?

-- Joe

You know how sometimes- especially when you get older- your memory isn’t what it should be. Maybe I knew, at one time, that all V Groove bits were not created equal- but I forgot.

The more I thought about this problem, the more it bugged me. So, I started looking at my V Groove bits. From the “front” they looked like I remembered:

Both have sharp points from this viewing angle. BUT when I turned them 90 degrees, I realized that they were very different!

The bit on the left has a thicker carbide profile than the one on the right. The left bit could never make a crisp V groove. The one on the right has been ground to a point in both directions so, in theory, it should make the bottom of the groove a crisp V profile.

Neither of my bits are Amana so I can’t say for sure what yours may look like. I think if yours is like the one on the right, then there must be a vibration/wobble causing the problem.

Sorry if my original post caused you any trouble- I need to continue to remember to put my brain into gear BEFORE opening my mouth.

I just noticed that you may have to click on the images to see them full size.

Lew

I’m planning to purchase the speed control. Found one for $15. I don’t think I need to try the plunge idea (also, it’s not a plunge router). I have already tested the ability for the bit to carve a sharp hole (see my first post). I think what’s shaking is the bit/router/speed combo—soo I’m looking to alter this.

Lew
I can’t see the right side bit – it is off the page and no amount of clicking helps?? :(

-- Joe

Afraid the pictures didn’t post very well. So here they are again

Lew

Great deal on a speed controll. Make sure it is rated for at least 15 amps

Let us know how it works out.

-- Joe

OK. I’m very delinquent getting back to all on this. Sorry. I tried the router speed control, but it only helped a little. Found the real problem, however. It’s an insert style bit (replaceable blade). The insert was not centered correctly! I didn’t know that was possible—thought they’d be self-centering. Assumed the factory would have shipped it correct anyway—but no. Thanks again.

Whoops – Oh, well, you NEEEEEDED that speed control anyway, right?

-- Joe