Expanding Wood and Glueing

The only way that I could think of it to only glue in the middle of the top but only 2-3” just in the center of the ends.

You could also put some screws in the center of the ends and then use fake plugs in other spots to give it a symetric look.

You could put slots on the outer edges that would allow the wood to move on some screws. similiar to the way that breadboard ends are attached.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

I read this post earlier and came back after thinking about it for a little while. Karson already suggested my ideas though (and one more).

The only other thought is that if you haven’t already glued up the sides, you might be able to switche the design over to some type of floating panel design. I can’t tell if you’ve already glued it or not though.

I dont think you would have any problems with breaking the box joints. I woud cut a rabbit around the sides of the lid and set the lid in a little, this would give you some more glue surface making it stronger.

If you glue the top fully it will crack, and carson has some good suggestions,
a neat way i have used is to ,as carson stated only glue the center, this forces expansion and contraction to move left and right, on the outer edges, as well as left and rt on the ends, chisel a mortise, approx 1/2 the thickness of the top ,deep, and 2/3 the width of the box..example 3/4 top=3/8 mortise depth, 3/4 sides = 1/2 mortise width, then screw only ,to the box, blocks that will fit into the mortise, elongating the screw holes in the direction of the wood movement, ( across the grain)...then glue the top on , as mentioned ,in the center, and and the blocks into the mortises…you now have a glued down top, with no visable means of attachment, that will allow for movement via the slotted screw holes.( counter sink the screws)...sounds like a lot of work, but really isnt…my only other suggestion would be to stain the underside of the top prior to glueing down, ( protect glue areas from stain), if you plan to stain it, so when the panel moves you have color , the force of wood movement is tremendous…you will never be able to glue this top down with out it cracking or distorting the box, unless you provide a means of movement…good luck

What about attaching it with dowels or biscuits? You could glue the dowels on the sides going with the grain and leave the ends dry.

-- Kate, http://www.wooden-box-maker.com

screws.

After some more thought, I’ve got an idea, but it would proabbly change the look of your project. This is similar to Karson’s last suggestion. You could drill 4 holes into the edge of the project sides (where the sides will contact the top). These four holes could hold a dowel. then cut 4 short slots wide enough to accomdat the dowel. Slide the top over the dowels and put a cap of some type over the dowel. It could be 2 long strips with two holes in each. It would basically sandwhich the lid between the strips and the side like it is squeezed in a vise. Not sure if I’m conveying the idea well, but hopefully this helps. If not, PM me and I can try to clarify.

Come on you guys, in theory yes the top could crack, but the original question was weather it would break apart the box joints. This box is so small that in my opinion it would never break apart the joints. He could drill down through the joints and put a dowell in it to lock the joint together also. I’m not meaning to argue about the top cracking, but I have made several projects of the like and had no problems. I’m only basing my Opinion on my experiences. How big is it? 10×12? I just don’t see it happeneing, sorry

I think I’m with bentlyj. The first question is how big is the box? Without any good visual clues in the photos, I’m guessing the box is 6” wide? I did a little reading, and for cope-and-stick joinery and mortise-and-tenon joinery the general rule is that a glued cross-grain joint can safely be up to 6”. I would think that would apply here as well, since this is just another cross-grain joint.

Looking around this website at small boxes, a few lids are frame-and-panel, but most of them appear to have the top directly attached to the sides, either trapped within or glued on. I wouldn’t build a 24” wide hope-chest lid this way, but for a small box, I really think you are okay.

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

the box is about 8 1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long. Thats also what I was thinking. If I can’t glue it I might just counterbore some screws in each of the corners and then get a plug cutter and match the grain of the plug with the top so you won’t see it. When the wood expands I would think it would just flex the 1/32 to 1/16 and not crack at that little movement. I don’t want to put screws in because I don’t want plugs at all in the top. My dad has suggested blocks on the inside that could work but the problem is they would detract from the whole project I think.

-- Tyler, Illinois

Tyler, I know you don’t want screws, but maybe you can live with this. I got this from FWW mag. for attaching a tabletop. You drill a tapered hole and countersink the small end. Put the big end of the taper against your top board, screw it down and plug the small end. This allows the top to move a little. At least you won’t see the plugs when your box is closed.

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC

Carl, thanks so much, I think that is what I’ll do. And the picture was great. I’ll just get a plug cutter and match the gain on the bottom so that you won’t even see the plug that much. That seems like the easiest, and most effective way of attaching the top. Thank You so much.

-- Tyler, Illinois

Glad I could help!

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC