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And so... the education of Thien Baffle begins

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Forum topic by Holbs posted 161 days ago 1091 views 1 time favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Holbs

510 posts in 630 days


161 days ago

With a economical source locally for spiral ducting and wye’s, I begin my journey into the realm of understanding dust collection and building a Thien baffle. I spent a good amount of time Saturday reading everything I could about constructing the top hat baffle. Not too many picture results come up via Google or lumberjocks, which I found a little surprising but mostly from Phil Thien website and forum discussions. But then, maybe everyone prefers cyclones. I choose a Thien baffle on a 55gallon drum BEFORE the dust collector to save on impeller longevity.
Here is what I have gathered so far:
1.) I have a dual bag 3HP grizzly dust collector. 7” inlet rated 2100 CFM.
2.) I will be using 7” 26 gauge metal duct from inlet of dust collector (which shall be mounted above) to outlet of Thein baffle with the use of a bell mouth I have to order from Penn State once it comes in stock.
3.) The Thein baffle unit will be 12” tall on top of a 55 gallon plastic barrel. This will allow a 6” round to rectangular inlet from the main run and lots of space (2-3 swirl rotations before separation). Similar to this youtube video
4.) The 270 degree cut out will be either 1” or 1 1/2”.
5.) No all-thread or bracing INSIDE the chamber itself.
6.) 6” spiral ducting and wye’s to all machinery (no 4” drops) with a couple clean-out hatches.
7.) The baffle plate itself will be 1/8” hardboard (or 26 gauge sheet metal…unsure yet)while being supported by 1-2” recessed 1/2” MDF underneath.
8.) the polycarbonate lexan (i’ll be talking to a local supplier of what is best for the application) will be 13” tall so that the bottom edge fits thru the bottom of the 270 degree arc.
9.) 1/4” minor ramp/bump in the chamber before the inlet so air particles do not collide harshly.
10.) no use of air straighteners as I do not know if they are needed with the dust collector inlet just being 12” above baffle unit.

after this upgrade, i’ll look into getting the pleated round filters for the grizzly but dang it… dual canister’s = 2x the money :) so the filters might take a bit of time to get around to. also, will have to look into search results of building my own blast gates.
anyone else care to comment with suggestions or pictures of their own interpretations?


20 replies so far

View Kwit's profile

Kwit

80 posts in 560 days


#1 posted 161 days ago

Sounds ambitious for a first time build… but ultimately worth it

I opted to mount the Thien baffle to the middle ring of my 2hp Grizzly DC; I also switched to a Wynn nano filter for the top bag. My reason for choosing this setup was pretty simple – I didn’t want to spend project time creating the “top hat”. I have been happy with the results so far. I am considering a top-hat in the future because I am just annoyed with emptying out the plastic bags full of shaving. Again – I’d rather build something I can sell or use in my home than just another piece of shop gear.

That being said…. I have one question for your particular set up;

Do you really need dual filters if you decided to go that route? I wonder if just one side of the dual bag set-up can be used – the pleated filters have a much greater square footage than a bag – maybe you modify to just use one side?

-- don't talk about it - be about it

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Holbs

510 posts in 630 days


#2 posted 161 days ago

good question about needing 2 filters. unknown. but never thought of buying 1 at a time instead of both. i do know i would need BOTH a bag & filter, or bag & bag, or filter & filter… i’ll need both air exits to fully pull maximum CFM.

this upcoming project might seem ambitious, but if you look at the tools required, the materials required.. it’s pretty simple even for the beginner into wood working: a router with circle jig, table saw… and glue. i just have to get some material thru the week (lexan, rectangle duct, etc) and i’ll start a project blog shortly.

View DIYaholic's profile

DIYaholic

12941 posts in 1276 days


#3 posted 161 days ago

Bummer on the need to upgrade two filters!!!
Looking forward to watching your progress.
I built a “Top Hat” separator for my HF 2HP DC….
A link, if you are interested….
http://lumberjocks.com/DIYaholic/blog/35193

-- Randy-- I may not be good...but I am slow! If good things come to those who wait.... Why is procratination a bad thing?

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Holbs

510 posts in 630 days


#4 posted 161 days ago

ah…randy.. i like your build! i’m following in your footsteps as I also am ‘on the fly’ with the info i have gathered places. I plan on doing a 2H chamber (12” instead of 6”) as some say it goes more fine dust separation. I’ll be laminating 1/8” hardboard or sheet metal (to be determined) ontop of 1/2’ MDF that will be recessed 2 or 3” back from the cutout. I like your idea of continuing the smooth wall all the way around to the inlet port too. I notice you leave 1/8” of a lip and then a dado for the sheet metal. Would having that sheet metal extend down into the cut out be better than having a lip at all? or is that dado structurally needed to support the bottom of the sheet metal?

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DIYaholic

12941 posts in 1276 days


#5 posted 161 days ago

Thanks for the compliment.

On to your question, If I got it right….

The main wall, made of aluminum sheet, is sandwiched between the top and bottom within a dado/groove.
The “internal ramp” is made of sheet metal wrapped around the plywood blocking. The entire “internal ramp” is then sandwiched between the top and bottom. The sheet metal on the ramp does not ride in a dado. (There was some trimming, of the sheet metal, after the picture was taken.)

I hope this explanation answers your question???

-- Randy-- I may not be good...but I am slow! If good things come to those who wait.... Why is procratination a bad thing?

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

510 posts in 630 days


#6 posted 161 days ago

it does.. and i’ll use the “ramp” as well, + 1/8” rise to help with the airstream inlet collision.
but my question was for the aluminum sheet itself. in your build, it is sandwiched between top and bottom. what would of happened if you just had it sit in the top groove only… and the bottom part glued / epoxied to the bottom so that there was no wood lip present? from my reading, less lip the better so why not remove it all together?
in other words.. had the aluminum sheet extend down into the cutout area another 3/4” to be flush with the bottom of the baffle.

View DIYaholic's profile

DIYaholic

12941 posts in 1276 days


#7 posted 161 days ago

Now I understand your question….
I was worried about the aluminum sheet deforming and not maintaining the smooth curve. I suppose using epoxy to adhere it would have worked & thusly eliminated the lip. Wish I had thought of that!!!

Good luck with your build!

-- Randy-- I may not be good...but I am slow! If good things come to those who wait.... Why is procratination a bad thing?

View WoodES's profile

WoodES

20 posts in 292 days


#8 posted 161 days ago

I built a Thien separator last summer for the 2HP Grizzly dust collector, running 6” dia. pvc. About 2 weeks ago, I checked the barrel for the first time and it’s about 3/4 full. Very little got past the separator. The original post with photos and details can be found here.

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/58263

Hope this helps.

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

510 posts in 630 days


#9 posted 161 days ago

yep… check your’s out, WoodES. I guess all Thien baffles are mostly the same. My only edits will be 12” chamber, a 7” bellhorn outlet, round to rectangular inlet, attempt to have no lip along cutout (unsure if i will go 1” or 1.5” or 2”), and will sit ontop of a 55gallon drum (seems everyone else uses 30gallon range)

View Tenfingers58's profile

Tenfingers58

78 posts in 1279 days


#10 posted 161 days ago

The only disadvantage I see to the 55 gallon drum is it would be much heavier to dump. Much harder to knock over though.

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

510 posts in 630 days


#11 posted 161 days ago

if i can find a way to line the inside with a 55gallon trash bag… i can just roll it out when trash man cometh and he can dump right into trash truck.

View WoodES's profile

WoodES

20 posts in 292 days


#12 posted 161 days ago

Sorry wrong link. try this one….

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/53907

Mine is only 8” high (1” each side of the 6” pipe dia. ). The outside diameter is roughly 3 times the pipe diameter.

View Tenfingers58's profile

Tenfingers58

78 posts in 1279 days


#13 posted 161 days ago

I’m planning something similar for my “When I get around to it” cyclone.

I planned to make a wood ring to hold the bag at the bottom along the wall of the drum with slats attached so I could pull it out after the drum starts to fill.

Then I thought it would be easier to just put a couple of gallons of dust In the new bag to hold it down.

Have you ever pulled a garbage bag of leaves out of a garbage can? The suction holds it in pretty good without the weight that the sawdust has. It MIGHT be easier to put the bag over the full can and flip it to empty the dust / chips into the bag.

The garbage guys here won’t even empty 55 gallon drums used as garbage cans, they just look at them and say “too heavy”.

Lucky for me I have a place that lets me throw my shop waste in their dumpster.

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Holbs

510 posts in 630 days


#14 posted 161 days ago

fingers..
garbage guys here use those side hydraulic forks on the trucks. if i line the 55 gallon drum, i can drill various holes in the bottom to void the suction issue and should plop out like a gum drop (in theory).
i was thinking the same… toss in some scrap wood or such to weigh down the bag.

View Tenfingers58's profile

Tenfingers58

78 posts in 1279 days


#15 posted 160 days ago

If you make holes in the drum the bag will get sucked to the collector.

Thinking about it more if I were using a steel drum, I could cut a hole in the middle of the bottom of the drum. Then for an air seal I would cut a piece of 3/4 plywood and cover the drum side with thin sponge. I could add casters to make it mobile. The lip on the bottom of the drum would hold the plywood in position.

Another idea would be to make an airtight door near the bottom of the drum to let air in to release the bag for emptying.

The bags I use for sawdust/chips are very thin UHMW and don’t hold up to sharp corners on scrap, thats why I would use sawdust to hold them down. They are cheap though.

I have an older clearview shopvac sized cyclone (no longer available) on a 30 galon plastic drum. If you deadend the hose it can suck in the sides of the drum. To empty it I put a garbage bag over it, and dump the barrel. DUST MASK SUGGESTED FOR THIS. Then I put the bag in the trailer. When I need the trailer for something else, I drive over and put the bags in the dumpster.

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