need help shoosing a dust collector

HM,
I built my own dust collector, Kinda helps to know some sheet metal guys though :) I have a 2 car garage, use only one machine at a time and keep my runs short and few 90’s (biggest robber of pressure drop). I run 4 inch straight out to keep the velocity up. My dust collector works fine and it is only a 1 hp motor with a dayton radial blower. Just my 2 cents, when you are looking at these it comes down to the motor and how well the impeller is made. I would go with the lower priced Grizzly and invest the remaining money in a good cartridge filter from Wynn Enviromental. These folks deal mostly in commercial, but sale to us hobbyist. They know their dust collection and have always been a great help to me. I would listen to what others have to say before choosing. I just signed up a week ago and these folks on here are great.

-- Bret - Ky "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."- Albert Einstein

I like cyclones. There are a couple of new “small” portable ones on the market from the guys who traditionally only make the big boys.

http://www.oneida-air.com/gorilla_mini.php
http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=26

I have a large cyclone, Clear Vue CV1800 (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/index.htm), but additionally I have found use for a shop vac cyclone: Clear Vue Mini CV06 or the Oneida Dust Deputy (http://www.dustdeputy.com/).

No matter what you choose, a dust collector is money well spent. Protect the lung, protect the lungs, ...

-- Just 'cause a cat has kittens in the oven, it don't make 'em biscuits.

I bought a Grizzlley 2HP about six years ago. It has been a great DC. pkennedy

-- P Kennedy Crossville, TN

Grizzly G0548….....2HP with 1 micron canister and 1700 CFM. I just bought one and I LOVE it, I can run TS and jointer at the same time and it will still suck the paint off the walls!! Absolutely wonderful especialy after using a small 1HP craftsman

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

I use to have a Grizzly 1029 ( only runs on 220V ) and had intentions of useing a garbage can seperator with it, but my situation is alot like yours, my shop is a 2 stall garage that we park out vehicles in, and after about 28 years of woodworking you can imagine all the tools I have stuffed in there. So anyway, the Grizzly 1029 worked very well for me over the years, but I only used the garbage can seperator with it once or twice, it took up too much extra space and was one more thing to setup and tear down everyday, so last fall I bought a Penn State Industries Tempest142 cyclone with a bag. I chose the bag unit after reading that some people felt that the cartridge filters plug up too often when doing alot of sanding and the bags are easier to clear. I also use a Contractor’s table saw, and redesigned dust collection for it that works very well. DUST SOLUTION I would like to add that a dust collector shouldn’t be your only defense against dust, an air filtration unit and a good dust mask should also be used.

Hi Guy!
Sounds like you had a Merry Christmas!
I owned a jet 1 hp 650cfm and sold it because it did not do the job I needed. This is not a 2 hp that I am thinking about buying. It is a delta 1200cfm. 1 1/2 hp.
http://www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com/Delta/Product/50-760.asp $399.00
It has free shipping. It is more in line with my budget. Does anyone here at LJ’s have one? Hope this input helps. I’m interested in the answers you get. May be purchasing the same unit as you.
Go Hokies!!

-- Gene, a Christian in Virginia

I have the JET with the cartridge filter and wouldn’t go back to bags for anything . My shop is a lot cleaner and as long as I use the agitator handle once in awhile I’ve had no issues . When it does need to be cleaned , I bring the filter outside and blow compressed air through the pleats from the outside in and also work the agitator handle to make sure it is good to go . I’ve had mine for over 5 years and have added the metal trash can seperator system inline to remove bulk chips and larger items from the airstream . It’s a lot easier to empty the trashcan than it is to remove the lower bag everytime it gets filled up . Make sure that you use a metal can as this machine will suck a plastic one through the hose !! LOL I can also convert this DC to 220v if I wish too. One other thing , The JET has two agitator handles on it which come in great because mine is set into a cubby and there is no room to walk around it to grab the handle as with the competition has only one handle so I would have to leave it out in the open or move it out of the cubby every time I needed to agitate the filter . Another consideration for your health and shop cleanliness . The cartridge removes particles down to 2 microns and the bag only to 30 microns : )

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

One other thing you might want to consider is a book, “Woodshop Dust Control” by Sandor Nagyszalanczy. It was very useful in my determining the type and size of dust collector I needed. I think I spent almost a year planning and reading everything I could find on the subject. This book has a wealth of info and explains it in a way that you need a phd to understand.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

try a smaller Oneida

remember this! Sound is very important. Choose a collector that has a large fan and slower motor speed. It will not kill your ears in your shop.

-- Eric Pierce, Craftline Cabinetry Boca Raton FL

MedicKen is correct. Some serious study is advisable. While a 2HP dust collector certainly is a great unit, I’m not going to jump on any bandwagon here. For the past 27 years I’ve had to base my shop in two garages. In both cases I’ve been able to only use about 1/2 of the garage. My wife claims the other half.

My present shop area is about 230 sq ft. Although it is nice to have a window, my wall space is very limited. Frustratingly, there is that large “wall”, the garage door, on which nothing can be hung, and in front of which nothing can be permanently placed. Of necessity all my tools are mobile, and each has it’s place out of the way when not being used. My cabinet maker’s bench is situated so that I can get around it on three sides, and a general purpose workbench is against the wall under the window.

Without digressing any further, there is no way that I could accomodate a 2HP dust collector, and permanently mounted 4” or 6” ductwork in my garage. I simply can’t afford to give up the wall space, and the ceiling, with the garage door mechanism, would make an overhead system problematic. Electrically, 2HP would have been impossible in my first garage, and even though I’ve installed a 60 amp breaker box in my new garage, which wasn’t cheap, I would have to run a 240V dedicated line to a 2HP dust collector.

Noise is also a factor that often is overlooked. For family’s sake, it would probably be desirable to put this unit outside in it’s own enclosure, which may get you into some code and zoning considerations. In my case, an outside unit would certainly soon result in my neighbor knocking on my door.

I have a 3/4 HP, single stage, portable dust collector with a 2 1/2” flexable hose that I attach to each machine as I use it. It is quiet and it does the job. I keep the remote control button in my shop apron. It’s footprint is only 21”x26”, and like other tools in my shop, it has a place to be when not in use. A 2 1/2” hose is not nearly as obtrusive on the floor of a small shop as one of 4” or 6”.

It’s my opinion that a 2HP dust collector’s best application is in a larger dedicated workshop where machines can be left in place.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

Delta 50-760 1.5 HP Dust Collector 1200 CFM is the one I’ve decided to get after much research from time to time it’s cheaper that $399 on Amazon with free shipping.
I also have the “Woodshop Dust Control” by Sandor Nagyszalanczy and it is a very useful book.

-- Only the Shadow knows....................

hmmm… There seems to be a lot to consider (and I’ve been considering for a while already.) I’m real thankful to anyone who has posted. I’ll keep thinking about it today and will hopefully have a decision within the next couple of days. In the meantime, anyone else that wants to weigh in, it would be welcome. I figure the more opinons the better. Thanks everyone!

Go with the canister filtration. I had bag filtration and switched over with at kit to the 1micron canister. I quit hacking up brown goo out of my lungs immediately.

The bags will kill you!

The extra money spent on a canister dust collector is well worth it.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

do the bags need to be replaced periodically? What about canisters? I know the canisters often have those nifty agitator brushes inside. Does that make the filters last indefinitely (or until the agitator wears through the filter?). I just want to epmhasize, cost is a realy factor for me. I’ve been saving for a year for this and anything over $about 400 is going to be out of the question. That being said, I’d really like to buy one unit and have it capable of handling my needs and a little more to accomodate a growing tool collection. I’ve looked for used models for a while but have had no luck. Thanks again for all the posts.

here is my two cents. I have to say that you don’t necessarily need a 2hp unit for what your wanting to do. A 2hp unit would more for like 60 foot stretches of pipe. For 20 feet of pipe, you could actullly go for a 1hp unit probably and save yourself some money. I have the Delta 50-760 like some had mentioned before. It is the greatest puchase in my shop. It is so efficient and it is not terribly loud. It is very powerfull. I have it hooked up to a jointer, tablesaw, bandsaw, router table, and a floor sweep and it runs just fine. I can open about 3 blast gates and it will still suck up dust pretty good. It is just incredible. You don’t have to worry about replaceing the bags becasue they are good forever. You can also get a mini separator to attach it to so that everytime you use your dust collector the larger chips and dust go into the mini separator and then the small fine stuff goes into the dust collector. Which by the way is a 1 micron bag. This is very important because the small dust (anything under about 5 30 microns) is very dangerous to your lungs. Also, this machine is great because you don’t need a 220 volt outlet, and it can even run on a 15 amp circuit. This is great for older homes that only have 15 amp circuits. Hope this helps. Trust me this is the best dust collector for the money on the market today. It won the editors choice in wood magazine, and I haven’t heard anything about it ever. you won’t be disappointed with this purchase.

-- Tyler, Illinois

A 3/4 HP dust collector with a 2 1/2” hose isn’t going to move enough air to work efficiently on a Contractor’s saw, or a surface planer, or a jointer. And not all bags are 30 micron, the bag on the cyclone I have is 5 micron. The cartridge filters do not last forever, depending on how much use, on average they last about 3 years I’ve been told, and they are about $150 – $180 each for a single stage DC. Go with a 2 HP if access to 220V isn’t a problem, or go with a 1 1/2 HP if all you have access for is a dedicated 110V circuit. What are your electrical options, or what do you have access to ?

Woodchuck:

I guess my 3/4HP dust collector is like the bumblebee, who didn’t know that he was not supposed to be able to fly. I bought my dust collector in ‘86 and it has successfully sucked up dust and chips from my saw, jointer and 12” planer like a trooper. In fact I now have two of them, one here in Gainesville and another in my shop in the U.P. In addition, both my son and son-in-law also have this same model. That’s a lot of bumblebees hummin away just doing their thing.

Actually for a small shop, like in a basement or garage, many of the dust collectors on the market today are “overkill”. Yeah. They certainly work, but take up too much valuable space, create too much noise, and gobble up too much of the typical home workshop’s electrical capacity. A 2HP unit especially, is best suited to the larger dedicated shop where runs are longer and machines are set in place.

For a technical discussion check out woodworking author Nick Engler’s presentation;
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/dustcollection.htm

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

I agree with the comments above, bags are not as good as the pleated cartridge-type filters. And yes, Wynn Environmental is a great resource for filtration (big and small). There is little out there in the way of a “compact” filter that’s rated better than 1 micron. You will need to study up on filter ratings to get the whole story.

All dust is dangerous with extended exposure, the smaller the particles the worse they are for your lungs (they can migrate further into the lungs). The upside is that there are fewer of the really small particles (1 micron and less).

Dust unchecked is dangerous. Study your options, listen to the opinions here, and do what is best for you and your situation.

Good luck.

-- Just 'cause a cat has kittens in the oven, it don't make 'em biscuits.

I have the delta unit you are looking at and have been very satisfied. I did find the the ducting is very important. I doubled my flow rate when i removed all of the flexible hoses and went to solid smooth pipe. also use long curves for your bends two 45’s with a short extension helps. shot 90’s can kill part of you flow. basic flow dynamics or so my engineers at work tell me. Also make sure to ground all of your ducting what ever you use. I have a very small shop though and very short runs. all of my runs go through the ceiling.

-- piper

8iowa, I understand what your saying, when I had the Grizzly G1029 ( 2 HP ) dust collector I hooked it up to one machine at a time, I did not install permanant ducting runs. The G1029 has a 6” inlet, but comes with a double 4” inlet wye and a cap to close one 4” inlet. I never uncapped one of the 4” inlets, so in theory I was only useing half or a little more than half of the capacity of the DC and it worked good. So what I’m trying to say is a 1HP DC with a 4” inlet probably would of been good enough for one machine at a time. What concerns me about your 3/4 unit is that your only useing a 2 1/2” hose, while it may work, I don’t think it’s going to work as good as if it had a 4” hose for a tablesaw, surface planer, jointer, etc. the CFM with a small diameter hose just isn’t there. I’m guessing that you have one of those Ridgid saws, or a jobsite saw that only has a 2 1/2” port.

Woodchuck:

Thanks for your response. I’ve tried to center my comments in this thread directly to Hokie’s original posting, which was a question concerning dust collection in 1/2 of a garage, which is a very small space. Since I’ve had 27 years experience trying to work in these crowded conditions, I was concerned that those who have 2HP dust collectors in larger shops, and love them – and rightly so, might inadvertantly give Hokie, and other small shop users, the impression that a 2HP dust collector is the way to go for a 250 sq ft or smaller workshop.

I appreciate your timely comments about using only 1/2 of the capacity of your 2HP Grizzly and that a 1HP dust collector probably would have been good enough for one machine at a time. I sincerely hope that our comments in this thread will help Hokie to not waste any money on a dust collector and piping system that is not really suitable for his home 1/2 garage workshop.

As a graduate mechanical engineer, I can understand that dust collection cannot be measured only in CFM. Air velocity, static pressure and losses, and cross sectional area of the pipes are factors that are just as important in the equation. A 2 1/2” hose certainly can sustain the necessary air velocity to suspend dust particles in the air stream. While my type of system would probably not be adequate for a 5HP cabinet saw and an 8” jointer, Hokie, and others including me, working in cramped garage spaces, are not likely to have tools like those.

I have purposely not mentioned any brand names as I wish to direct my responses at the technical level of the problems of dust collection in the very small workshop. If someone wishes to know what brand of tools and dust collector that I have I will be glad to answer in a PM. Thanks again for your timely response.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

8Iowa, in Hokie’s original post one of his choices was the G1029, also in his original post it sounded to me like he would be runing about 20 ft of ducting, and he has a contractors saw. When running that much permanant ducting I feel a person needs atleast a 1 1/2 HP DC. For a Contractors saw, which is what Hokie has, I feel you need the extra CFM there too. I’m not sure why you think your going to get better suction or suspend particles better in a 2 1/2” hose than a 4” hose when your useing a short run of hose, there is a reason that your DC has a 4” inlet. DC’s aren’t like vacuums, DC’s work on the principle of CFM ( cubic feet of air per minute ) in other words, volume of air. There is another guy that I seen install a cyclone in his shop not too long ago, the cyclone had a 6” inlet, but right away he reduced it down to a 4” main line for about 10 ft to a 4” X 4” X 4” wye, branching off from there with two 4” runs. This makes no sense to me, judgeing from the professionally installed DC sytems I’ve seen, he should of run 10 ft of 6” main line to a 6” X 4” X 4” wye and branched off with two 4” runs. You can stear a horse to water but you can’t make him drink, hopefully the others will though.

Woodchuck:

Hokie also said that wall space was very limited, and that he would be using one tool at a time. I have empathy for that situation. In my 1/2 garage here in Gainesville I have only one wall, with a window taking up some of the space. With only 230 sq ft to work in, I need to utilize that wall space to the max for storage. Puting piping on the wall is a serious “trade off” consideration. I think this is also one of Hokie’s concerns.

So Hokie, like me, uses one tool at a time, my recommendation to him, and to others in this situation, is to use a smaller portable dust collector, with as limited a footprint as possible, and connect it to each machine as he uses it. He can then use his limited wall space for cabinets and shelving.

As I said before, you can’t design a dust collection system on CFM alone. Air velocity is actually more important as testing has shown that an air velocity of 3500 feet per minute is the minimum speed to keep dust particles suspended in the airstream. It’s hard for many people to understand that if you have 3500 FPM velocity in a 4” pipe, and then expand to a 6” pipe, the air velocity will decrease porportionally to the increase in cross sectional area. The CFM will stay the same, but the decrease in air velocity will result in dust settling in the 6” pipe. It will never reach the dust collector. The only way to get the air velocity back up to 3500 FPM in the 6” example above, is to increase the HP and size of the dust collector. I firmly believe that many shops have oversized their dust collection systems because of the belief that the larger diameter pipes “increase the flow”, when actually just the opposite is the case.

The reason my 3/4HP dust collector works is because the air velocity in the 2 1/2” hose stays above 3500 FPM. I usually have a run of only 8’, although I sometimes connect it to another 8’ length, and this works, as no dust settles in the hose.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

My understanding was that he wants to leave his DC in the corner and not wheel it around. So basically your saying the manufacture of your DC didn’t know what they were doing when they gave your DC a 4” inlet, and that it should of been 2 1/2” ? If you have dust settleing in a 4” hose with that short of a run, either your not useing smooth walled 4” hose or your bags need to be cleaned or replaced. I’m sorry, but I give up, I don’t know what else to say, to each his own I guess.

It would have been great if you mentioned your $400 limited budget in your original post instead of stating that you had been saving for a long time , etc. , etc. for “a dedicated dust collection system”.
Your post should have read ..What is the best Dust Collector I can purchase for under $400 including shipping ?
I have a 1hp unit on wheels that I roll from machine to machine as necessary and it was under $120 when I bought it 15 years ago . That was my budget back then and it met my needs and space requirements . It came with a 10’ length of 4” hose and that was enough…at that time.
I now have the full size JET that remains in its cubbyhole with several sections of 4” pipe connected to it and I still have the original mobile unit that I use on certain applications . I did replace the original bags on it with a 3 micron top bag and a plastic lower bag for health reasons.

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

I can vouch for the 50-760 from Delta

BEAUTIFUL machine. I have it connected to my Table Saw, Jointer, Planer and Router Table.. many times I have had 2 or more blast gates open, and it has no issues. Only thing I would like to get is a Canister filter for it. Got mine at the tool show a year ago, and paid about $350 Canadian for it.

Best thing I did was spend the money on a “Dust Detector” a relay so that when I turn any of my machinery it turns on the dust collector automatically.

-- But honey.. this new power tool will pay for itself when we re-do the kitchen!

Check this one Hokie, close to the ones your looking at. Cheaper and moves more cfm’s
https://00ed360.netsolstores.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1642

Looks like it’s cheaper because of the amount of dust it lets thru the bags . 30 micron size vs. 2 . 5 micron particle size on the Grizzly. I guess you could always buy better filter bags in the future !

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

Well, here are my thoughts after reading everyone’s comments:
1) I need to be more clear when describing my situation (lol – this still worked out well because I got some perspectives I may not have otherwise gotten)
2) Maybe it is worth just adding a 120 volt breaker instead of the 220 a 2 hp unit would require
3) hp (or cfm for that matter) isn’t everything
4) a bag is inferior to a canister, but a canister costs quite a bit more
5) noise is another thing to consider that I hadn’t originally

Based on all of this, I think I’ve come up with a plan. I got minimal support for any of my original choices, but lots for the Delta 50-760. This is at the very peak of my price range, and going to the next increment would involve waiting another year to save enough $ to buy a grade higher (which many pointed out could be overkill anyway). What I plan to do is order the book that everyone has suggested (along with Chris Shwartz’s workbench book). While reading those, I’m going to wait for the delta to go on sale. If nothing in the book changes my mind, I’m going to purchase that unit and it comes with a 1 micron bag. By the time next year rolls around, maybe I can upgrade the unit for minimal costs by purchasing an upgrade kit.

I’d love to hear a few more thoughts on my current plan of action. I really appreciate that everyone took the time to weigh in and try to get me the ideal item for my needs. I’m ok with paying a fair price for a machine. I just want to get the best one I can for that money. Unfortunately, unlike a new gadget, I think I really need to avoid postponing this item much longer because my health is important to me.

Thanks again everyone!

Hokie,
I know how the budget thing goes. Like I said earlier ,I really can’t tell you which one to get, Dust Collection is always a hotly debated item, due to the design engineering that goes into an effecient collection system, even in a small shop. If I had room or budget for an industrial dust collection (like shop class :)) system, smooth wall pipe, etc… I would! Moving air, is well moving air, If one machine can pull 600 CFM through 20’ of 4” pipe at 3500 FPM velocity and so can the other one, then it comes down to noise and filtration in your price range. My opinion, go with the filtration, Ear Muffs are cheap. Cartridge life depends on how often you are using the DC and maintaining the filter. The book by Sandor is an excellent start and I highly suggest it as others have.

Good Luck in your decision, No matter what you get, some is better than none.

-- Bret - Ky "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."- Albert Einstein

Thanks wildcat for your input.

As another note to any who are interested, it looks like rockler is having the sale that I was talking about:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=11239&TabSelect=Reviews

The Delta 50-760 from Rockler may not be a bad way to go, it has enough CFM for what you want to do, you can do the second stage garbage can lid underneith the inlet which would save you space, you get a one micron bag, and if you order it today you get free shipping. Sounds like a heck of a deal, you haven’t bought it yet ?

I’ve been (and still am) in the same situation you are at, with same space consideration, and same budget. I have ultimately passed on numerous Delta 1Hp 650CFM offers at ~60 (craigslist.org) as I felt it wouldn’t be enough for what I have in mind.

I have eventually purchased the Jet 1.5Hp 1100CFM (older model) at a good bargain (craigslist.org), it currently has a bag which is pretty lousy (30micron – that’s BAD BAD BAD) but as more funds are available – this will be upgraded to a Wynn Environmental cartridge filter at 0.5 micron – yeah 0.5 micron!

this combination gives you a very good (with good reputation and reviews) motor and impeller from Jet, and the best filter you can get on the market these days for dust collection of that size. All that, at a reasonable price (should be comparable or LOWER than brand name collector+canister)

hope this helps. the Jet is fantastic!

PS. Also consider plumbing up at 6” pipes if possible. 4” is ok, but limits the airflow that the 1100CFM collectors produce, and limits the ability of those collectors to collect the really fine particles -which are the worst! the Jet comes with a 6” opening (I would think that the Grizzly also has that but I haven’t seen that one yet)

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I ran across this site late last night. The price looks good and has a $25.00 rebate. $344.00 after the rebate. I am not sure on the shipping.
http://www.dynamitetoolco.com/Delta_50_760_1_5_HP_Dust_Collector_1200_CFM_p/del-50-760.htm
Has anyone dealt with this company before? I hope this helps.

-- Gene, a Christian in Virginia