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saw pals on Ridgid R4512

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Forum topic by Blurrytree posted 01-17-2014 02:10 PM 2752 views 1 time favorited 37 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Blurrytree

65 posts in 281 days


01-17-2014 02:10 PM

Topic tags/keywords: saw pals trunnion ridgid r4512 table mounted alignment tune up runout adjustment

I have been having a hard time finding out if saw pals can be made to fit the Ridgid R4512. If you do not know what they are you can see them here.

http://in-lineindustries.com/products/contractor-saw-pals/

Basically they allow for fine tuning the trunnions on contractor saws. The ⅜” version is for ridgid saws, why it doesn’t state that is does not fit R4512 is beyond me. I have no clue about in-line industries business model but I would be willing to pay a premium if they manufactured an R4512 version only since added expense and frustration would be nearly eliminated.

I have ordered the ⅜” version (closest to 10mm) and am going to report back with what works or doesn’t when they arrive.

I have found three different methods for making them fit that is purely based on internet searches. These are not my sites or am I affiliated in anyway.

1. Shave off a bit on each end of the rear trunnion to allow the pals to properly wrap around the edge.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Saw-Pal-Instalation-on-a-Rigid-R4512-Table-saw/

This method may require an additional machine shop expense and/or potential problems with heat and modifying your saw. This seems a bit extreme since wouldn’t it be easier to just modify the pals? However only a small amount needs to be removed. ⅛”?

2. Move the mounting hole on the pal. I read on another forum that someone simply drilled a 10mm hole on his existing pals to allow the part to clear the edge of the trunnion. I am going to consider this approach first if I feel I will have enough clearance around the new hole next to the previous one.

3. Make your own from scratch. The design is pretty simple which makes me wonder why a R4512 version is not available. I suspect R4512 owners would flock to the site to purchase for an easy fix because we all know it is not a pleasant task. I will most likely make a pair out of wood to get the sizing right and then either make them myself or find a machine shop to do a prettier version.

I suspect all of these options will work to a degree and I will let you know how I make out.


37 replies so far

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5513 posts in 2062 days


#1 posted 01-17-2014 05:07 PM

Call In-Line Industries and ask. It’s a small mom and pop type operation owned by Jerry Coles. They’re often away at shows, but give them a try.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View jeff's profile

jeff

679 posts in 2152 days


#2 posted 01-17-2014 05:23 PM

Last time I read they do not make PALS for the R4512…

-- Jeff,Tucson,Az.

View Blurrytree's profile

Blurrytree

65 posts in 281 days


#3 posted 01-18-2014 02:38 PM

Got this info from the company:

If you are modifying these for a Ridgid, I would recommend the 5/15” PALS, as the brackets are a little longer. You would need to drill out the hole for the studs, but I think that would be your best bet. The “Maintaining Your Table Saw” manual in the EDUCATION section of our site and the PALS Installation video may be helpful.

Let me know how it works out.

I ordered a set and am trying it out once they arrive

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Blurrytree

65 posts in 281 days


#4 posted 01-22-2014 07:43 PM

I got them today and it looks as if they are going to work quite well.

All that I can see that is required is enlarge the hole and buy longer bolts.

note: I am using the stud from saw pals and it is simply for illustrative purposes and does not fit.

Here are some pics of the 5/16” version. Perhaps this will help someone.

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knotscott

5513 posts in 2062 days


#5 posted 01-22-2014 08:31 PM

I know the PALS help hold alignment, and make the fine tuning easier, but do you think they’ll help the chronic alignment problem that many of the R4512s and 21833s have?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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Blurrytree

65 posts in 281 days


#6 posted 01-22-2014 09:00 PM

Hey there, I doubt it or am very hopeful. I am going to use the saw at 90 degrees only and think that these will allow me to get it the best I can. I suspect due to the simplicity I will get better results personally. I found the blade shifting to be around 0.005” at 90 degrees and have seen far worse at tilting. I cant see how the pals will help fix the issue but who knows? Maybe getting it well aligned could put the rest in order to at least acceptable standards.

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Blurrytree

65 posts in 281 days


#7 posted 01-28-2014 07:34 PM

Not sure if this is much interest to people.

Anyway, I drilled the hole larger in the pals. Aside from some hardware changes there was no filing of trunnions etc. required.

I replaced the rear trunnions original M10 socket head screws with 60mm long, M10 set screws (65mm would be better for the extra room for the nylon lock nut to sit on prior to tightening, but they did not have them and 60mm does work)

Originally, I was going to stick with the socket head screws that came with the saw, aside from being a tad short they probably would work with a little more frustration. However, I read in the instructions that the threaded rod aids in providing less drifting when tightening. So I decided to go that route. Since I was buying new hardware I opted for set screws as opposed to the threaded rods (like what comes with the pals) since it can be tightened with a hex wrench. I also added some loc-tite.

I didn’t get a chance to do the final adjustment but the instal looks good. The additional hardware cost me under $6.

View AaronKoch's profile

AaronKoch

10 posts in 308 days


#8 posted 02-06-2014 03:23 PM

I know the PALS help hold alignment, and make the fine tuning easier, but do you think they’ll help the chronic alignment problem that many of the R4512s and 21833s have?

This is my question. I would buy the R4512 if I knew I could get it aligned and keep it that way, but I’m scared to death that’s not possible, even with the PALS.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5513 posts in 2062 days


#9 posted 02-06-2014 03:54 PM

”...I would buy the R4512 if I knew I could get it aligned and keep it that way, but I’m scared to death that’s not possible, even with the PALS.”

If you get one that’s not defective, it should be fine. They’re not all plagued with that issue.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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AaronKoch

10 posts in 308 days


#10 posted 02-06-2014 04:04 PM

See, I wonder if they are but not everyone who buys a saw at Home Depot cares enough to notice.

View chazmclean's profile

chazmclean

24 posts in 1018 days


#11 posted 02-06-2014 04:05 PM

Yes, i my R4512 would stay dead on.

View Blurrytree's profile

Blurrytree

65 posts in 281 days


#12 posted 02-07-2014 06:10 PM

Sorry about the delay, I missed the notification.

Aaron, The pals helped but they did not correct the issue. I actually ended up not even using them (will explain more below).

Knotscott, You clearly know your stuff and I mean no disrespect. Completely out of curiosity how you know there are units out there without the problem? I just find it odd that some would work and some would not (not that that is entirely uncommon though). I also find it strange that no one truly knows the cause of the problem and they are all built the “same”.

Chaz, Following my same sentiment as above. How did you measure your saw? Did you use a dial indicator? check at different heights tilts etc? Also, how much is dead on? I only wonder because I have had two of these saws manufactured about 2 years apart (which doesn’t seem to matter) and have had no luck with either.

Anyway, I ended up not using the pals because I found the aluminum a little too weak on the fine adjustment screws. I got the blade within 0.007” by tapping and nudging and then fine tuned with the pals. After tightening the fine tuning bolts to improve the alignment they ended up stripping. I removed the pals and kept the posts in and it was much easier to align. I was able to do most of it with gentle taps with a closed fist.

I got the blade aligned to the miter with +- 0.001 runout. I was thrilled. I then changed the blade height and it was 0.005”..still pretty happy. Then I tried some other heights etc and it was as high as 0.010”.

I told myself that 0.006” runout was my limit and if it was not met I would just sell the saw. Perhaps I am splitting hairs or expecting too much but I just started to worry at that point. I sold the saw for a little less than what I paid, explained all of this to the buyer and I consider it a lesson learned.

One thing that I did prior to the final “aligning” that really helped is this:

I noticed there was some play in between the trunnions. I could shift the entire assembly a significant amount 1/4” or so. I recall this wiggle room in the brand new one I had as well but never really paid attention.

I loosened all four trunnion bolts and took a long clamp and pulled them into each other as much as possible and then tightened. This removed any noticeable play. This helped a lot in my case!

View Blurrytree's profile

Blurrytree

65 posts in 281 days


#13 posted 02-07-2014 06:13 PM

Sorry about the delay, I missed the notification.

Aaron, The pals helped but they did not correct the issue. I actually ended up not even using them (will explain more below).

Knotscott, You clearly know your stuff and I mean no disrespect. Completely out of curiosity how you know there are units out there without the problem? I just find it mind odd that some would work and some would. I also find it strange that no one truly knows the cause of the problem and they are all built the “same”.

Chaz, Following my same sentiment as above. How did you measure your saw? Did you use a dial indicator? check at different heights tilts etc? Also, how much is dead on? I only wonder because I have had two of these saws manufactured about 2 years apart (which doesn’t seem to matter) and have had no luck with either.

Anyway, I ended up not using the pals because I found the aluminum a little too weak on the fine adjustment screws. I got the blade within 0.007” by tapping and nudging and then fine tuned with the pals. After tightening the fine tuning bolts to improve the alignment they ended up stripping. I removed the pals and kept the posts in and it was much easier to align. I was able to do most of it with gentle taps with a closed fist.

I got the blade aligned to the miter with +- 0.001 runout. I was thrilled. I then changed the blade height and it was 0.005”..still pretty happy. Then I tried some other heights etc and it was as high as 0.010”.

I told myself that 0.006” blade to miter runout was my limit and if it was not met I would just sell the saw. Perhaps I am splitting hairs or expecting too much but I just started to worry at that point. I also still had to align the fence and felt the number would just keep accumulating past my personal standard. I sold the saw for a little less than what I paid, explained all of this to the buyer and I consider it a lesson learned.

One thing that I did prior to the final “aligning” that really helped is this:

I noticed there was some play in between the trunnions. I could shift the entire assembly a significant amount 1/4” or so. I recall this wiggle room in the brand new one I had as well but never really paid attention.

I loosened all four trunnion bolts and took a long clamp and pulled them into each other as much as possible and then tightened. This removed any noticeable play. This helped a lot in my case!

View BeeFarmer's profile

BeeFarmer

35 posts in 243 days


#14 posted 02-20-2014 02:04 PM

I just bought this saw 2/15/14. It has the dreaded moving blade problem, but I Emailed Ridgid and they are sending me a new trunnion. He said it is the part that is replaced at the service center. I am suppose to get it today 2/20/14. I hope it is a thicker casting, or machined correctly to stop the flex in the main trunnion. I will be making my own saw pals. We will see… Other than that I love the saw, I added an old casts iron saw top with slotted cast wing to the right so the fence is solid to the end and it’s stable even when on the wheels. If you want to see what is happening, lay on your back looking under the saw (w/light) and crank the blade all the way up. You will see the main trunnion twist. The saws without the problem must have a better casting or machining… I keep telling myself, I got a great deal but it is from China.

-- My worker Bee's are all female... Does that make me a pimp?

View Matt Przybylski's profile

Matt Przybylski

457 posts in 1065 days


#15 posted 02-20-2014 03:04 PM

BeeFarmer, please keep us posted and let us know if the new trunnions fixes the problem. I have this alignment issue as well and I have PALS on my saw too. I would not buy the PALS again as they haven’t seemed to help at all in my case. I think the alignment issue just basically overrode anything the PALS can do for me.

-- Matt, Illinois, http://www.reintroducing.com

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