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Forum topic by Medickep posted 217 days ago 655 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


217 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: resource

After failing with my 2.5” dust collection system with a shop vac and DD, I’m considering getting this Grizzly DC from my old neighbor who is starting to clear his wood shop out.

Does anyone know if they’re good collectors? What’s a fair used priced? Besides 4” duct, are there a lot of other hidden costs with them?

What would be the max effective distance for this DC?

Thanks,

http://www.grizzly.com/products/2HP-Canister-Dust-Collector-with-Aluminum-Impeller-Polar-Bear-Series/G0548ZP

-- Keith


20 replies so far

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#1 posted 217 days ago

I was wrong it wasn’t a grizzly its a dust dog.

He said he would sell it for a fair price and also mentioned 300 dollars, which included a ton of pipe, hose and fittings.

One thing he mentioned that seemed off was that the filter was good for life!

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

-- Keith

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gtbuzz

349 posts in 1066 days


#2 posted 217 days ago

It’s a pretty decent dust collector. I had one for a few years before I upgraded to a cyclone. $300 is an okay price, but nothing to write home about. $250 would be a good price IMO. I sold mine with the canister filter for $300 and there was still a little wiggle room, but the guy didn’t even try to haggle. Also included a Long Ranger

A couple of random thoughts
  • Find out if the included canister is a 2 micron or a 1 micron (they made both models). If its the 1 micron you should be okay. If 2, you’d probably want to swap that out for a Wynn cartridge. There’s not a model with a direct fit for this drum, so you’ll have to make a donut. I recommend the C1425.
  • Dunno what hose it comes with, but stock, that machine has a 6×4x4 splitter on the impeller intake. Chuck that and use 6” hose to your machine and put the reducer there. You’ll get much better performance
  • One thing I like about this design is that the ring is large enough for you to build a chip separator into the ring. Takes up no additional floor place that way and REALLY helps keep the filter clean
  • One bad part of the chip separator after the impeller is that your impeller isn’t protected by large debris you suck up
  • The impeller is a nice and beefy steel impeller (as it should be). It stands up to, say, some small bowls that fell out of the chuck or maybe even a glass jar full of Shellawax. Don’t ask me how I know
  • If he doesn’t have a Long Ranger or similar remote, get one. It’ll make your life much easier

Performance was pretty good. Reason I upgraded to a cyclone was due to limited shop space. I originally thought it would be a good idea to roll it around from machine to machine, however my shop is small and I routinely have so much crap on the floors that it was near impossible. Decided to go with a stationary machine instead (about the same footprint) and fixed ducting. I felt like the DC1100 might be a little underpowered for fixed ducting. I could be wrong though. There’s plenty of people that run ducting with their HF dust collectors and are happy with it. This is a much better DC.

In the 1.5hp class DC, this one and the Delta 50-760 routinely come out as top performers. I think you’ll be happy with it, even if he doesn’t budge on the $300.

If you decide to get it and want some advice on adding the internal chip separator, feel free to PM me and I can give you some tips.

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#3 posted 217 days ago

Thanks for the tip. I’m considering this after my epic fail with a fixed 2.5” PVC system attached to my Dust Deputy and 6.5 horsepower shop vac. I just find myself cleaning up to much dust, despite the TS and router being right by the shop vac.

If I get this, I’ll want it fixed as I tend to go from tool to tool and don’t want to lug it around. Is there any reason my current Dust Deputy would not work on this?

I’ve never seen separators that go in these??

-- Keith

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gtbuzz

349 posts in 1066 days


#4 posted 217 days ago

A couple things to note about your current setup
  • The 6.5HP motor on that shop vac is a marketing claim only. It a peak value and not the actual performance of the motor. AC motors, when first switched on, have a very momentary inrush of current that’s far higher than the amps pulled during normal operation. Even at peak efficiency, 6.5HP is roughly 45 amps on a 110 volt circuit
  • It looks like you’ve got fixed ducting attached to the shop vac. Even the best ones out there only pull about 125cfm or somewhere in that range with a seasoned filter and minimal static head losses. You’re adding a LOT of static pressure with that piping so the net result at the inlet is going to be far less. Probably not even a quarter of what you’d pull if you just used the shop vac without the ducting
  • The two tools you mention produce a lot of dust. Does your table saw have a 4” dust port? If so, necking it down to 2.5” certainly won’t help. If it’s 2.5, it’s undersized anyway and only there to help have less dust. As far as the router goes, a shop vac is a good solution for dust collection built into a fence, but you still need effective collection below the table too. I built a bucket below my table with a 4” connection that I use in conjunction with the fence dust collection as well and there’s still a good bit that I can’t catch. It’s just the name of the game. Even with a good dust collector, you’re still gonna have dust that gets away
  • The preseparator you have on there is designed to remove the heaviest particles from the air before they reach the filter. May sound ironic because they’re so good to have, but they actually reduce suction in that they increase the static pressure. What they do, however is keep the filter from getting clogged, so they perform better, longer
  • That preseparator will not work on the Jet DC1100 or any other “real” dust collector for that matter. It’s got 2.5” inlets, while all dust collectors start with at least 4”. If you tried to rig that up to the Jet, it’s likely that you’ll just crush it
Now that I said all that, the Jet will be a HUGE increase in performance over that, even if you do run fixed ducting. Should you decide to go with it, here’s some things to consider as well
  • You definitely want some sort of chip separating method. You can do the internal baffle I mentioned earlier, Oneida also makes a very similar unit designed for dust collectors. There’s also the Thein baffle that’s discussed on this site and others quite a bit. You could also opt for a metal cyclone unit off of eBay (I have one of those and like it, but they’re gonna double the cost of what you’re already looking at spending)
  • If you go with fixed ducting, try to go with 6” ducts and reduce to 4” right at the tool. Minimize your use of flex hose as those really kill airflow. Try to minimize sharp 90 degree turns too. Gradual turns are much better
  • Don’t get rid of the shop vac either. They’re still quite handy for a lot of things, such as with smaller tools (like a sander) where trying to attach a dust collector hose would be absolutely unwieldy

If you really want to go nuts and learn a lot about dust collection, check out Bill Pentz's site . It’s a wealth of information and he’s forgotten more than most of us could ever hope to learn.

Hope that helps.

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#5 posted 217 days ago

Thanks for the input and tips. I knew my shop wasn’t the best setup, I just haven’t see a shop vac “rated” for more than 6.5 horsepower. I may tweak my system one last time, before I go with a mobile system.

I know the larger DC would be much better, but if I found myself sweeping and picking up large messes after I dump a ton of money into it, I would really be pi$$ed!

-- Keith

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Fred Hargis

1714 posts in 1118 days


#6 posted 217 days ago

Gtbuzz offered some excellent stuff, absolutely agree with everything. But you asked about the filter “for life”. Eventually the filter will get so glogged it needs replaced. I just replaced the one on my Oneida after about 6 years. But doing everything you can to prevent dust/chips getting to it really extends the life. So the internal baffle will be a really good thing. There will be directions on how to clean the filter (I hope). There are some differences (some can be washed out with water, some can’t, etc.) but you’ll find that it will need to be cleaned every once in a while. Good luck, this will be real kick ass compared to trying to using a shop vac.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, we sent 'em to Washington.

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#7 posted 217 days ago

Thanks GTBuzz-

I figured someone had to make a washable filter for these bad boys. I just purchased the clean stream for my shop vac and it was really staying clean, especially with the DD in front of it.

-- Keith

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#8 posted 215 days ago

Well it’s with a tear in my eye that I began dismantling my 2.5” dust collection system. I will be using the shop vac directly connected to my tools until I can afford a nicer system. The good news a lot of my parts look brand new, so I think I’ll be able to return them and help cover some of the costs!

I will be researching this more but so far I found that most people say 5” duct is the sweet spot for duct. Has anyone had any direct experience comparing 4” versus 5 or 6”? If I buy the Grizzly from my neighbor, I’m sure I’ll just be matching the included duct he gives me!

Also, thanks to everyone one for the tips, tricks and help!

-- Keith

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#9 posted 203 days ago

Okay, I just picked up a Jet DC-1100C from a neighbor for 300 dollars. Included some stiff 4” PVC piping, 4” flexible piping as well as some Y’s and wall mounts.

It states in the manual it’s 1100CFM and the canister on it is 2 micron (not sure how good that is!). I do want to put a separator on it eventually, but that may come down the road.

I had a little room in the middle of my row of tools in my garage and I’m looking for ideas on the best setup. I know when I added to many gates on my 2.5” system I seemed to lose some suction, so I don’t want to do that!

*One note is that the old man I bought this from had a run of the 4” hard pipe along his wall with 4” flex pipe off the Y’s. His blast gates were at the tools, which I thought would cause him to lose suction, but he stated it worked great. He even had his Y’s backwards!

Also, for his smaller tools, he ran 2.5” shop vac hose from the tool, to the DC, where he had a reducer and a gate right at the DC.

So what I was thinking, unless I hear otherwise :-) is that I would have a run of hard 4” pipe (+/- 12’) to my chop saw, TS and router and the other way would be around 9’ to my oscillating sander, bandsaw and drill press. I would put a Y behind each tool and use the flexible 4” with a reducer right at the tool. I’m not sure where or how many metal gates I should get.

Here are some pictures to help!

Included 4” stuff.

Layout of tools:

Thanks in advance for any and all help thus far!

-- Keith

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#10 posted 203 days ago

Not sure why the phone pictures are always sideways!

-- Keith

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toolie

1737 posts in 1253 days


#11 posted 203 days ago

my 50-850 is very much like the subject jet. here’s the thread i did when i added a baffle to the collector’s drum ring:

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40189

it’s surprisingly easy to do. here’s what the collector bag looked like during operation after the baffle was installed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6KpAhEsrV0

and what’s the reason for dismantling your 2.5” shop vac system? they are still useful for general clean up. and i use mine with a shop vac and a series of ivac switches and contactors that provide for automatic dust collector and shop vac activation with any power tool, 110v or 220v. the shop vac provides for additional collection with the router table, table saw, RAS and band saw:

stowed:

deployed:

works pretty well on the TS for above the table collection:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZWmcwst1YQ

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#12 posted 203 days ago

Toolie-

That looks pretty cool. So, with this type of separator, Is the goal just keeping the dust out of the filter and directly into the bag? It’s acting like a deflector? That’s cool that it improved you’re flow!

I still have most of my 2.5” parts. I could make a run of 2.5” PVC and reduce it at the DC but most here say it’s better to run 4” pipe up to the tool than reduce it right at the tool. I just want to get it right the first time and move onto projects. To much time on dust lately!!

-- Keith

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#13 posted 203 days ago

by the way, I just noticed that your over the blade hose for your TS articulates!! Pretty darn cool! So you’re using the shop vac and your larger DC at the same time? I’m surprised the shop vac sucks any dust straight up like that!

-- Keith

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Medickep

338 posts in 363 days


#14 posted 203 days ago

That guy in the video had no gates at the ports near his DC? Is this the norm? To use minimal gates and just have the hole system drawing at once??

Thanks

-- Keith

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toolie

1737 posts in 1253 days


#15 posted 203 days ago

Is the goal just keeping the dust out of the filter and directly into the bag?

yes. less material to the filter = less decrease in suction over a longer period of time.

That’s cool that it improved you’re flow!

it doesn’t improve flow. it provides for the max flow of the collector for a longer period of time through keeping the fllter cleaner for a longer period of time.

I could make a run of 2.5” PVC and reduce it at the DC but most here say it’s better to run 4” pipe up to the tool than reduce it right at the tool.

i agree that 2.5” hose and DCs don’t mix. i use my dc with 4” hose and pipe only. the shop vac is dedicated to the 2.5” plastic piped system i have in the shop, which is additional to the DC.

So you’re using the shop vac and your larger DC at the same time?

yes. i daisy chained two of these:

http://www.ivacswitch.com/default.action?itemid=13

great product from a great company. they were extremely helpful in getting the switches set up corectly. they also have a wirelessly interconnected system called ivac pro. works with both 110 and 220v systems. a bit pricey but plug and play easy. i had one of th eivac swithces die for no reasaon out of warranty. i called them, explained what happened and they sent me another one, free.

BTW, if you’re looking for setting up dust collection right the first time, have you seen this video by alan schafter? he frequents the woodnet and saw mill creek forums and is very creative:

http://www.americanwoodworker.tv/videos/5057_automatic-dust-collection/

To use minimal gates and just have the hole system drawing at once??

unless that’s one heck of a collector in terms of CFM, opening all gates at one time is probably not a good idea.

hope this helps.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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