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Forum topic by keninblaine posted 01-13-2014 08:36 PM 571 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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keninblaine

128 posts in 287 days


01-13-2014 08:36 PM

I’m spraying a coat of toner on my maple desk components prior to spraying the stain, as recommended and supplied by the cabinet shop that made all the other cabinets in my home. I’m finding that the toner color is too dark if put on reasonably heavy, and looks better if I put on a light coat. But applying a light coat is tricky since it is hard to get consistent coverage without some lighter or darker spots. Can I just thin the toner (with lacquer thinner since it has a lacquer base) in order to dilute the coloring and make it easier to get consistent coverage?

-- Ken, Blaine Washington


13 replies so far

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2555 days


#1 posted 01-13-2014 08:57 PM

yes lacquer thinner will thin it. Then spray it in a “cross hatch ” pattern , meaning open up the fan ,increase the pressure, and spray one way , then the opposite, also back up to about 8 to 10” from the surface . You want to break the toner up well (atomize) , and basically “dust ” it on. The finish coat will seal it in . Just be aware that it can look lighter because its dusted on than it will when it has a full wet coat of finish on it . “Sneak up On it ” . This was the method I used for spraying heavy metalflake to get it even. Works well. You will have more over spray so be prepared

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keninblaine

128 posts in 287 days


#2 posted 01-13-2014 09:02 PM

Thanks! Would thinning 50/50 be too much?

-- Ken, Blaine Washington

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CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2555 days


#3 posted 01-13-2014 09:08 PM

50/50 is about right, it depends on how much “sneaking ” you want to do. I have found adding more was pretty easy , its that “remove” thing that’s the problem. :)

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keninblaine

128 posts in 287 days


#4 posted 01-14-2014 01:55 AM

I mixed a small amount of 50/50 and tried it on a sample, and I think it is good. Thanks for your input.

-- Ken, Blaine Washington

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keninblaine

128 posts in 287 days


#5 posted 01-14-2014 03:59 PM

One more point of clarification is needed. While I now have the right color, I’m still having a little trouble getting it to mist more, rather than spray. I’m still getting some larger drops in the spray and it is hard to get even coverage without putting it on too heavy in some places while I try to pick up spots that don’t have enough color. I’m using a HVLP gun with 1.4 mm nozzle. Is my nozzle too large or do I need to increase the pressure more, or? I’m at around 40psi at the gun right now. I’m effectively spraying lacquer thinner with a little color in it, so it is pretty thin.

-- Ken, Blaine Washington

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CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2555 days


#6 posted 01-14-2014 05:14 PM

the 1.4 is fine, cut the fluid down and up the pressure a little if possible…

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Kryptic

294 posts in 345 days


#7 posted 01-14-2014 05:55 PM

I agree but could add.

I prefer to stain the project first, then apply toner to even out the stain, as staining the piece after might result in an uneven colour thus rendering step 1 useless ?

Sometimes I just add the toner to the lacquer, and repeat what CharlesNeil has said above, slowly but surely sneaking up on it

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keninblaine

128 posts in 287 days


#8 posted 01-14-2014 10:30 PM

CharlesNeil: Thanks very much. I increased the pressure a little and cut down the fluid and voila! Success. I got a nice fine mist that allowed me to “sneak up” with more color where needed for evenness, using a 50/50 blend of toner and thinner.
Kryptic: I’m following the directions given to me by the cabinet maker who sold me the toner and stain, where they say to apply the toner, then the stain, then the lacquer finish (2 coats). He said the toner applies about 80% of the color onto the surface of the wood, then the stain evens things out and penetrates the grain more. I did most pieces today and the results have been quite satisfying.

For some reason, a big drop of toner dropped from the gun reservoir to one of the pieces while I was spraying it. I tried to wipe it out, but it left a mark. So after it dried I lightly sanded the area on and around the spot, then tried applying toner to it again. Now I have a darker area around where the spot was, and some variation in tone at the spot. I’m wondering if I can sand the whole problem area with 220 down to bare wood and try again with the toner. My understanding is that the toner just sits on the surface, and the thinner evaporates away, so I would think the wood should be able to take the toner again. I just need to be careful to feather it out to the surrounding area so the toner doesn’t get darker at the overlap. I’ve posted a photo of the problem area below. Any comments?

-- Ken, Blaine Washington

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CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2555 days


#9 posted 01-14-2014 10:39 PM

take a little 600 or finer, even a fine scotch bright, and gently scuff some of the toner off, go easy . Your getting it.

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pintodeluxe

3439 posts in 1498 days


#10 posted 01-14-2014 11:16 PM

Try wrapping a washcloth around the fluid cup on your sprayer. Hold the washcloth in place with a rubber band. This will catch any errant drops to prevent the problem in the future.

You have undertaken what I consider to be the most difficult technique in the spray finishing world. If you can master toning, you can do anything.
Here is another discussion on the topic of toning… http://lumberjocks.com/projects/63811

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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keninblaine

128 posts in 287 days


#11 posted 01-15-2014 12:19 AM

Charlesneil: I have some 400 grit, but if you recommend 600 or higher I’ll go and get some. Should I sand wet or dry?

Pintodeluxe: yes, I started holding a rag around the container after that problem arose. Thanks for the encouraging comment. Oh, I just saw your link about your kitchen cabinets. Nice job. Regarding lacquer, I thought I would spray satin lacquer on my project with the HVLP gun, but have not seen anywhere that lacquer can be purchased other than brushable lacquer or aerosol cans (which I have been using up to now). Curious if brushable lacquer gives decent results or if it sets up too fast for larger surfaces. Are aerosols OK, or is it preferable (re quality and/or cost) to find sprayable liquid lacquer? I see you purchased some at Miller Paints, the closest of which is about 90 miles from where I live. Is it worth the drive, and what are the considerations for using it vs using aerosols?

-- Ken, Blaine Washington

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CharlesNeil

1128 posts in 2555 days


#12 posted 01-15-2014 01:26 PM

400 will do , its a little course for a gentle “sneak” , so go easy, you can also rub 2 pieces of it together which will take some of the “bite” out of it, ...............

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keninblaine

128 posts in 287 days


#13 posted 01-16-2014 12:47 AM

Thanks Charles. I used 600 today and it did the trick by “sneaking up on it”. I didn’t realize you were such a well-known expert in finishing, and I enjoyed watching a couple of your videos today. Thanks for all the help.

-- Ken, Blaine Washington

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