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Forum topic by b2rtch posted 01-07-2014 10:15 PM 1561 views 0 times favorited 31 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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b2rtch

4822 posts in 2514 days


01-07-2014 10:15 PM

I know that it was a post about his subject last week but I believe that it was not fully investigated.
Even if I never paid a penny for it, for many years I receive Wood Magazine.
Like many if us I read the rather bad review about the Clear View cyclone dust collector.
I never had allergies in my life until I moved to Salt Lake City Utah in 1999 and my allergies are getting worse year after year.
In the winter months, due to what is called ” the inversion” we have the worse air quality anywhere in the USA for days and weeks at the time.
Some days the air we breath looks like the worse air in some cities in main land China, it is terrible.
For the last week or so I suffered from a mixture of sinus infection, allergies and, what I believe is, wood dust allergy.
I already missed several hours of work because of it and I feel miserable.

As some of you know, I have a Clear View dust collector with the return filters right in my shop.
For obvious reasons I would like to know if theses filters are as bad as Wood Magazine says they are.
If I am filling my lungs with wood particles, I would like to know and to have an option to not do it.

I know and I understand that the reviews in magazines are financed by advertisements in the same magazine.
Who make the filters for the Clear View DC?
I believe that it is Wynn, is this correct?
Do you know of an independent reviews (not paid by advertisements) of the different filters on different DC?
Do you know of other filters that could be mounted on the Clear View?

Thank you for any help.
Bertrand

-- Bert


31 replies so far

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b2rtch

4822 posts in 2514 days


#1 posted 01-07-2014 10:31 PM

I just read on Clear View website that the filers indeed are Wynn filters MERV 10.
For comparison the final filter I use on my home made shop air filtration is MERV 16 (equivalent the HEPA).
If I could find some MERV16 filters to replace the MERV10 and if the cost was not absolutely prohibitive, another problem is that these filers would most likely plug up very fast.
I would then have to install a pre-filter asembly and this is just too much headaches

-- Bert

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b2rtch

4822 posts in 2514 days


#2 posted 01-07-2014 10:41 PM

Oneida sales a cartridge filter an HEPA rating that would fit the Clear View but the cost is $338.00 a piece and I need two of them!
In addition the problem of these filters plugging real fast is not resolved.

-- Bert

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Jim Finn

2413 posts in 2387 days


#3 posted 01-07-2014 10:57 PM

Consider moving the dust collector outdoors like I did.

-- "You may have your PHD but I have my GED and my DD 214"

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crank49

3981 posts in 2436 days


#4 posted 01-07-2014 11:53 PM

If you have room, build a filter box.
Just buy simple rectangular filters with the rating you want and mount them on a housing.
Then feed the cyclone output into the box and the air must pass through the filters before entering the room.

A little tip that might be helpful is to go way overboard on the air flow to filter surface ratio if you can.
Some filters push this ratio to 10 or 12 to 1. That’s 10 cu ft of air per square foot of filter area.
It works fairly well but the higher the velocity the air must be going through the filter the faster and more permanently the filter gets plugged.

A larger filter surface area, like 2 or 3 to 1 will reduce this speed and the filters will not plug so bad and they will be much more efficient. Win win.

About the only other way to go to get any better is to go to continuously self cleaning filters, but then you get into true industrial filters and the price of entry into this level of environmental control is typically about $10 per CFM. That’s why most hobby wood workers never heard about them. If the 2hp HF DC was one of these type machines it would sell for about $6000.

-- Michael: Hillary has a long list of accomplishments, though most DAs would refer to them as felonies.

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Bobsboxes

1107 posts in 2129 days


#5 posted 01-07-2014 11:57 PM

I have also thought a lot about the filters pumping fine dust back into the air. As I cannot move my cyclone outside the garage, it is concrete and because of cold temps in Montana winters, I cannot dump my heated air outside.I have the grizzly 2 hp cyclone, was very scared of stock filters, so I called Wynn filters and they helped me figure out what I needed. I ended up with 2, Merv 15 nano filters, the two filters were overkill but they also dropped my filter back pressure to almost nothing. I feel this is the best protection I can get. You can see my setup in my projects. I also have a JDS overhead filter I run all the time I am in the shop. My next project on cleaning the air out of cyclone, is to enclose it in a small room and filter the air with good true hepa filters, and as a bonus maybe some sound control. If anyone has any ideas to clean the air I am dumping back into my lungs, I am all ears. This should be a concern of anyone that spends a considerable amount of time in their shop.

-- Bob in Montana. Kindness is the Language the blind can see and deaf can hear. - Mark Twain

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b2rtch

4822 posts in 2514 days


#6 posted 01-07-2014 11:59 PM

Jim, I had my filters outside, it did work.
I like the idea to build a box around the existing filters to get a better filtration and to use the existing filters as pre-filters.
Now room is the issue but ti could be done.
Thank you for your answers

-- Bert

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Volund

36 posts in 1420 days


#7 posted 01-08-2014 12:09 AM

I use a HF DC with a Clearview cyclone. I removed the (horrible) filter bag from the HF and added a MERV 15 cartridge filter from Wynn in its place. This setup has worked phenomenally well, even with heavy tablesaw use on walnut and maple. I just dumped the 33 gal. can under the cyclone for something like the 10th time since installation, and still have only a gallon or so of fine dust in the bag under the cartridge on the DC. The Clearview cyclone works very well. You just need a sufficient filter with LOTS of surface area beyond the blower, rated for or well above the CFM you’re pumping through it. Also, remember that filters work best once they load up a little.

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Volund

36 posts in 1420 days


#8 posted 01-08-2014 12:10 AM

(ignore… dup.)

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MrRon

3926 posts in 2709 days


#9 posted 01-08-2014 12:14 AM

When I designed my dust collection system, my agenda was to have a maintenance free system; one that didn’t require filters. Because I live in a rural area, I was able to discharge my dust directly to the outdoors, collecting only the large particles in a 55 gal drum. This allowed me to use a HF DC to control my dust. It was an in-expensive solution. I hope others with the same conditions I have, can utilize my same method. DC systems can cost more than 1000$. Mine cost no more than $300 and does everything a DC is supposed to do.

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MrRon

3926 posts in 2709 days


#10 posted 01-08-2014 12:18 AM

B2rtech; You might want to check out the filters that are used on diesel trucks. Testing on those are conducted by non-profit reviewers.

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Volund

36 posts in 1420 days


#11 posted 01-08-2014 12:20 AM

It gets too cold up here for that, MrRon. I’d be exchanging marginally heated air for fresh cold stuff at ~800 CFM.

That’s assuming my wife would put up with dust gluing itself to the wall and plants, etc. outside the shop first time it rains. Realistically, I’d think pumping sub-micron dust into the air would be an environmental hazard for you and the neighbors. You’d need a good-sized yard to get away with that at least.

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Manitario

2402 posts in 2348 days


#12 posted 01-08-2014 12:27 AM

I take these reviews with a grain of salt…Consistently, small DC’s with small motors and small filter area get rave reviews, which doesn’t make any sense. A large cyclone with a large filter area and a 5hp motor and large impeller, ie. the Clearvue has better specs than anything else they’ve reviewed. I bought my Clearvue with 2 MERV16 filters. Consistently my Dylos particle counter reads a count of less than 400ppm smaller than 1micron particles when I have my DC on. Typically I have less than a tablespoon of dust in the filter clean out after weeks of use. As well, I did “real life” CFM testing this summer on my set up which gave me an average of ~800CFM at each machine. I struggle to believe that any other DC would get close to this. I had a typical 1.5hp canister DC with a 1 micron filter and I came in from each ww day with a cough and plugged sinuses. I would love to do some “real life” calculations with a particle counter, pitot tube and digital manometer on these other DC’s.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

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RogerInColorado

321 posts in 1420 days


#13 posted 01-08-2014 12:31 AM

Frankly, I find the review odd. Bill Penz is regarded as a guru of this issue, the CV1800 is touted by Clearview as the only one in the business designed by him. I think, as a minimum, he needs to chime in on the review and on the performance of the CV1800. There are actually 2 issues here, one is the static pressure loss, the other is the dust escaping from the filters. Both are, according to the graphs, not competitive.

If the data is accurate, then Clearview has some work to do to get their competitive edge back.

I have seen references on some forums to instruments for measuring ambient dust and then measuring while the collector is running. I don’t know how expensive these instruments are, but my perception is that they are not prohibitive, just impractical for the sort of one time use most of us would give them. Maybe a supplier of them could give you a lead on where to borrow or rent one. It I were in your shoes, I think I’d chase that dog a while before investing time and dollars in shop mods. You may be suffering a change in ambient environment as a result of “living in a bowl”. Your shop may be fine. You won’t know until you can call your pulmonary guy with particulate data.

Here is a chart describing typical applications for MERV filter rated filters;
Typical applications for the major MERV value ranges are:

MERV 1 – 4
Minimum filtration, used almost exclusively in residential buildings

MERV 5 – 8
Most commercial applications and better residential buildings

MERV 9 – 12
Superior residential buildings and better commercial buildings

MERV 13 – 16
Hospital inpatient and general surgery; found in superior commercial buildings

MERV 17 – 20
Clean rooms and pharmaceutical manufacturing

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b2rtch

4822 posts in 2514 days


#14 posted 01-08-2014 12:49 AM

I would like very much to see Bill Penz give his opinion about these reviews

-- Bert

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Manitario

2402 posts in 2348 days


#15 posted 01-08-2014 02:08 AM

Here’s a guy on the Clearvue Cyclone forums commenting:
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bullentin/showthread.php?p=8526#post8526

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

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