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PM 1000 with Grrripper or a Sawstop

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Forum topic by Cougar posted 244 days ago 1446 views 1 time favorited 53 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Cougar

11 posts in 247 days


244 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: question tablesaw safety

Gents,

I hesitate asking this question. I’ve read hundreds of posts and I know anytime people see the words Sawstop, 50% start frothing at the mouth and the other 50% are apathetic… I am buying a new saw to upgrade from my crappy box store tablesaw. I am leaning towards the SS model due to quality and the added safety feature. I was reading some posts about the Grrrrrripper (I think that is enough Rs) and I started to consider a PM 1000 with a couple of Grrrippers. I have no experience with the Grripper. They seem to be as polarizing at the SS; most people who have them swear by them and the people who don’t have them or guys who have engrained habits/other methods hate the Gripper. As far as costs go, the PM with the Grippers is about $250-300 cheaper. This is the last TS I ever want to buy and I want to do it right. I know SS and PM both make quality machines and I can’t go wrong with either one. I am not advocating SS advertising tactics, the theory that a safety mechanism actually makes you operate more unsafely, or the cost aspect of “safety” over the life of the TS.

In terms of safety, how do the Grrippers rate against the SS? In my line of work, I have seen that even when every precaution is taken and you are focused on the task at hand, accidents can still happen for unforeseen reasons. My goal is to minimize the risk of injury in the event that ever happens. This is even more applicable to me, a novice and self-taught woodworker. I plan on doing that via the SS safety mechanism or a mechanical implement (Grippers). I think my biggest hang ups with the Grrippers are the time aspect (setting up for every cut) and the requirement to use the TS without the blade guard, which seems odd. Thanks in advance for your thoughts on the matter.


53 replies so far

View retfr8flyr's profile

retfr8flyr

193 posts in 302 days


#1 posted 244 days ago

I have a Jet Xacta Delude saw and use the Gripper setup. I only use them, without the blade guard, when making smaller cuts and they work great. It is very easy to set them for a cut and only takes a minute. I made several end grain cutting boards for Christmas and they worked great. I like the way they hold both sides of the cut, so no possibility of a kickback. When I am making larger cuts, where my hand is not as close to the blade, I use the blade guard and just use them as a normal push block. I think the SS would probably be safer over all but I really like the Grippers.

Earl

-- Earl

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5425 posts in 2008 days


#2 posted 244 days ago

Not all SS saws are created equal…which model are you specifically considering? Do you have 220v available?

FWIW, I like my Gripper.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Cougar's profile

Cougar

11 posts in 247 days


#3 posted 244 days ago

Knot:

1.75 PCS. I don’t have 220V; I’m in the military and I move around a lot and rent. In 12 years, I have only had one place with 220V wiring. Although I would like to buy the 3HP PCS, I would have to pay to rewire someone else’s house every 2-3 years. I tell myself that I am a hobbyist and 1.75HP is sufficent for my needs… Otherwise I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night after spending $2300…

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

886 posts in 743 days


#4 posted 244 days ago

I don’t hate Grrrippers, I simply know how to quickly make dirt-cheap push devices, usually in batches that last for years, and I’ve been able to take advantage of plenty of hands-on classes that keep me working in a safety minded manner. I’m going on 21 years of safely working wood.

I also believe in consumable push devices, as it’s no big deal when you realize that the blade is about to cut right through your device. If you’re working wood regularily, you WILL cut a push block now or then. Sometimes, allowing the blade to cut a push device is the fastest and most accurate safe way to complete a cut. With my $0.50 worth of MDF device that took five minutes to make (or ONE, if it was part of a batch), I just keep on pushing, then toss it in the trash and grab another. I think an expensive push device may cause someone to try to back out of a cut or manuever in an unsafe way, as they try to prevent damaging the expensive device.

That said, I sold a perfectly good cabinet saw, one that currently sells for $2800 new, to replace it with a SawStop. I had used several examples of SawStop cabinet saws at various locations, and was impressed with the saw’s build quality, and any time I can have an extra level of protection, I’ll take it. So I did!

I do not think a Grripper is in any way a replacement for flesh sensing technology. It’s apples and oranges… I think they’re great for folks who don’t know other ways to push and guide stock, and I won’t knock anyone who feels they work for them. In my book, the only comparisons to flesh sensing, safety-wise, are power feeders or European sliding saws, simply because the operator’s hands never get anywhere near the blade with them.

The loss of even part of a finger would take away my ability to do many things I love to do, like play the bass, ride bicycles, etc… The loss of more than that would compromise my FAA flight medical, and forever take away my ability to fly.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3740 posts in 2296 days


#5 posted 244 days ago

I have a SawStop PCS175 and a Gripper (add r’s as needed).

I would recommend both.

The 1.75hp motor hasn’t been a problem for me … my saw has performed flawlessly for a year and a half. I just use a decent quality thin kerf blade and watch my feed rate.

I don’t have any experience with the PM1000.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Cougar's profile

Cougar

11 posts in 247 days


#6 posted 244 days ago

Retfr8flyr:

When you say “no possibility of kickback”, what do you mean? I have never had kickback on my TS, at least not yet. My understanding is that it is a very violent event. I am not sure that even with holding the GRRRipper on top of the piece, I could control a board if the saw really wanted to fling it across the garage. When you say “no possibility of kickback”, do you mean that it eliminates the kickback ever happening, or that if the kickback started to happen, you could control the piece?

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Cougar

11 posts in 247 days


#7 posted 244 days ago

I find it amusing that between me, Retfr8flyr, and CessnaBarry, there are three pilots on this forum right now.

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

886 posts in 743 days


#8 posted 244 days ago

I find it amusing that between me, Retfr8flyr, and CessnaBarry, there are three pilots on this forum right now.

Birds of a feather…. So you understand my medical comment? If not, ask your favorite AME…

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5425 posts in 2008 days


#9 posted 244 days ago

Given your circumstances, I’d be inclined to get the PCS with their fence upgrade. The safety technology becomes pretty appealing in that price range when limited to 120v. I wouldn’t consider the Grippers to be a viable substitute for the brake system.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Cougar's profile

Cougar

11 posts in 247 days


#10 posted 244 days ago

Yup, but in my line of work it is called a 1042. Same thing, in effect. I can’t do my job with a piece of wood in my eye or with less than 10 fingers.

View Cougar's profile

Cougar

11 posts in 247 days


#11 posted 244 days ago

Knot, when you say fence upgrade, I am assuming you mean the SS “Professional Fence”. If so, that is the one I have my eye on. Is there another fence they sell that is nicer?

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5425 posts in 2008 days


#12 posted 244 days ago

Stock PCS fence:

The “T-Glide” ....it adds $170.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Luke's profile

Luke

538 posts in 1927 days


#13 posted 244 days ago

If it were me and I had the money and wanted to use a saw for life… I’d go with a PM2000 3HP. Perhaps the Unisaw. They are more money but life is so long!

-- LAS, http://www.abettersign.com

View PaulDoug's profile

PaulDoug

535 posts in 336 days


#14 posted 244 days ago

Grrripers are fine, I use on often, but there are cases when the griper does not apply. I don’t have a Sawstop, probably never well because my last saw bought is suppose to be that, my last saw. However if I had to money, and life left for another last saw, I’d get the Sawstop, for the added safety. Then I’d use my gripper when it was useful. I don’t think the Sawstop or the gripper are going to prevent kick back as much as using you saw correctly will. I’ve had two serious kick backs, both caused injury, and both were my fault, for doing things incorrectly.

-- “We all die. The goal isn't to live forever; the goal is to create something that will.” - Chuck Palahniuk

View Scomel Basses's profile

Scomel Basses

157 posts in 630 days


#15 posted 244 days ago

After recently buying a SawStop PCS 3HP and completely drinking the Kool-Aid;) I would strongly suggest the SS. I’ve never used the PM1000 but if it’s anything like the 2000, it’s an awesome saw. If SS didn’t exist I’d either buy the 2000 or the newest Delta which is very nice. But thankfully SS does exist and they make a product just as good if not better than PM and Delta and you get an incredible safety device. My wife bought me a Gripper for Christmas and I’ve been messing with it the last couple days. I like it. It’s perfect for cutting thin pieces when you have to put the fence close to the blade and can’t use the guard. Other than that, I will use it along with the guard. I’ll probably get another one for ripping long boards.

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