LumberJocks

Noob Veneer question

  • Advertise with us

« back to Woodworking Skill Share forum

Forum topic by Astronutski posted 12-23-2013 03:37 PM 549 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Astronutski's profile

Astronutski

5 posts in 336 days


12-23-2013 03:37 PM

Topic tags/keywords: noob veneer inlay tearing problem anegre

Hi guys, brand new to LJ, first post….

I just did my first veneer/inlay project, actually it’s not done, but I do have a question as to a specific problem I ran into. Check the picture, but one small corner of my veneered lid split and a few small pieces disappeared :-/ so I am wondering what if anything one does in this situation, so I know for the future. This one is Anegre veneer cold pressed, and banded with that inlay. I really don’t know what happened or when that corner became so ugly :-/

I guess a) what did I do wrong? and 2) what can I do to “fix” it if anything.

Thanks for the forum, I hope to learn and share a lot here!
Peace,
Bill

-- Hi, my name is Bill, I love dirt bikes ;-)


13 replies so far

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

2578 posts in 1496 days


#1 posted 12-23-2013 03:45 PM

When that happened to me, I took out the messed up pieces and replaced them.

-- David in Damascus, MD

View knotheadswoodshed's profile

knotheadswoodshed

174 posts in 892 days


#2 posted 12-23-2013 04:03 PM

hate it when that happens, I occassionally have had that happen with Madrone burl veneer.
Like David said, you could replace it, but then you lose the banding, which isnt cheap.
To fix the current problem you could fill the spots with Anigre dust and put a drop or 2 of thin CA on it and sand it down when it dries. This will leave dark spots but will solve the immediate issue.
Moving on to prevent the problem in the future, it is a good idea to first score the lines where you will be inlaying. This will help keep the veneer from chipping.

-- Randy - "I dont make mistakes, I make design change opportunities" www.knotheadswoodshed.com

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

5221 posts in 1518 days


#3 posted 12-23-2013 04:44 PM

Your veneer likely wasn’t glued down well enough. A knife cut may have helped but a better practice would have been to assemble the veneer / banding as a unit first, then apply the whole to the substrate.
If you do it that way and chip the veneer when cutting it, it is way easier to fix.
I would also recommend hot or liquid hide glue for many reasons. I’m convinced it is the best for veneering. My preference is for hot especially if you have the equipment to press it with heated cauls. This is not expensive or difficult and will take your veneering to another level.

Just my opinions of course.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

2578 posts in 1496 days


#4 posted 12-23-2013 05:13 PM

Paul, I agree with you on that.

My answer is misleading in a way. I make my own veneer so if there is a problem, I replace the whole strip. I use hot hide glue so a heat gun loosens the whole strip off. When I make the veneer, I make several extra strips in case there are problems. I am not good enough to not make several extras.

In making your veneering strips, measure them carefully so that the corners match up maple to maple, walnut to walnut, etc… – this may mean that the side pieces have different sized blocks than the top and bottom. It will make the hard work you are doing so much more professional.

-- David in Damascus, MD

View Astronutski's profile

Astronutski

5 posts in 336 days


#5 posted 12-23-2013 06:32 PM

Incredible help guys thank you!

David, I don’t quite follow what you mean in your second paragraph, could you please explain that one? I’m very interested to understand it does sound like a good idea, but I don’t grasp it all LOL.

What do you mean by “strip”? How wide are your strips? And how do you get good enough to join two pieces together to not see a seem?

Thanks again!
Bill in PA

-- Hi, my name is Bill, I love dirt bikes ;-)

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

2578 posts in 1496 days


#6 posted 12-23-2013 07:44 PM

The squares in the corners – see my picture

The corners flow. If this looks good, other flaws are not noticed

-- David in Damascus, MD

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

2578 posts in 1496 days


#7 posted 12-23-2013 07:46 PM

The strips, with or without borders can be as wide as you make them. When you make your own, the options are endless.

-- David in Damascus, MD

View Astronutski's profile

Astronutski

5 posts in 336 days


#8 posted 12-23-2013 08:00 PM

Thanks Paul, I see what you mean, and yes, glueing down certainly could have been a problem. This was my first crack at it, and I have no idea what their 25’ x 25’ coverage rate on the bottle equals in real life on a 6” x 9” panel. I spread it barely thicker than a thin coat just enough to cover the wood. My thought was it may come squeezing up through the veneer if I use too much glue. I did it in a hurry, and the other one was a mahogany crotch, which was more dried out and crinkly than an old cr.. never mind. That one definitely did crack and had glue bleed up through, but I have since read about the softeners, and will probably try that the next time I try the mahogany (but this is advanced, and I am far from that at this point). So, I was trying not to get any glue squeeze-up, so it could have definitely been too light on the anegre.

Always learning, that’s what I love about this hobby (sorry, to me it’s a hobby, I don’t mean to insult you Pro’s who do it for a living).

Thanks again guys. So much fun.

-- Hi, my name is Bill, I love dirt bikes ;-)

View Astronutski's profile

Astronutski

5 posts in 336 days


#9 posted 12-23-2013 08:01 PM

I like your fix-it idea Randy, I may just try that! Thank you!

-- Hi, my name is Bill, I love dirt bikes ;-)

View Astronutski's profile

Astronutski

5 posts in 336 days


#10 posted 12-23-2013 08:05 PM

David, that is PHENOMENAL! Something I could only dream of at this point!
Thanks for the further explanation, (I don’t see any squares in the corners), is there a higher resolution of that picture posted somewhere? I’d love to zoom in and see what you’re talking about.

Are you saying you replaced the corners due to the same problem I had, but you blended them so well you can’t notice?

*And how do you make your own veneer? (basically, like, what kind of saw do you use?)

-- Hi, my name is Bill, I love dirt bikes ;-)

View knotheadswoodshed's profile

knotheadswoodshed

174 posts in 892 days


#11 posted 12-23-2013 08:21 PM

when using cold press glue, a thin coat is all you need, so you had it right. it is best used in a vacuum press to ensure equal pressure throught the piece (IMO). If you plan on doing a lot of veneering, a vacuum press is a great addition to your shop and opens up lots of options. They are easy to make.
A great source of info on veneering in general is Joe from veneersupplies.com
I slice (most of) my own veneer on my bandsaw, same for making your own banding

-- Randy - "I dont make mistakes, I make design change opportunities" www.knotheadswoodshed.com

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

5221 posts in 1518 days


#12 posted 12-24-2013 12:10 AM

One of the real advantages of hide glues for veneering, especially with today’s thin veneers is that any “squeeze out” can be removed with water and a Scotchbrite after curing without needing to sand away any veneer. With pva glues there is always a chance you didn’t get it all and it messes with the finish.

Personally, I prefer a mechanical press if the piece are small enough especially if marquetry is involved but it’s a matter of choice. I hardly ever use my vacuum press since I built my mechanical one. You can press pieces larger than your press if you are using HHG with hot cauls. This blog shows how it’s done. It’s about half way down the page.

These are just my preferences. I’m sure the cold press glue does work and I’ve done lots of vacuum bagging so I know that works too. No argument intended here, just more information.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

2578 posts in 1496 days


#13 posted 12-26-2013 01:56 PM

My mistake – what I was referring to are the inside squares of maple, cherry, and walnut and how they meet in the corners. You don’t want a mitered corner of maple going into cherry – for example. You also want equal amounts – or as close to it as you can, of the same veneer on each side of the corner.

No, I didn’t replace the corners, but I did have to place an outside strip where it splintered off during assembly (maple does that but I didn’t have any holly). When you make your drawings, prior to building it, this is when you design how it will look and the measurements of everything.

I used a band saw to saw the wood. Depending upon the complexity, it can be a two or three step process to a six or eight step process.

-- David in Damascus, MD

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase