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glue for a glue-up

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Forum topic by harum posted 12-21-2013 03:30 AM 1051 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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harum

216 posts in 1111 days


12-21-2013 03:30 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question maple joining

Hello, looking for the right glue for a table top glue-up. I plan to finish the table top with a polyurethane varnish. I have read that Titebond PVA-based glues, and similar, should be only used along with screws, nails, etc., and never without reinforcement; and that polyurethane or hide glues are strong enough to be used without reinforcement of any kind. From many LJ-ers projects, my impression has been that Titebond II and III is what most people use for their table top glue-ups held by glue only. Should I be fine with Titebond II? Would appreciate any comment.

-- "If you're not counting the ripples when throwing pebbles in the water, you're wasting your time."


16 replies so far

View TheGermanJoiner's profile

TheGermanJoiner

847 posts in 1105 days


#1 posted 12-21-2013 03:36 AM

Here’s a link from fine woodworking. Go pva
http://www.oldbrownglue.com/pdf/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.pdf

-- Greg - Ferdinand and Son Construction: Do it right the first time. Like us on Facebook

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3131 days


#2 posted 12-21-2013 03:43 AM

I generally use Titebond I (the original with the red label) ... never had a problem.

Titebond II yields a longer open time, while Titebond III is a waterproof glue.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4859 posts in 2281 days


#3 posted 12-21-2013 03:53 AM

I use Titebond II for most of my glueups. The glue joint is stronger that the surrounding wood fibers. You don’t need any additional reinforcement like biscuits or dowels.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View JonHitThingWithRock's profile

JonHitThingWithRock

97 posts in 1190 days


#4 posted 12-21-2013 04:18 AM

I’d go titebond-whatever, polyurethane glues are a pita, and not really that much stronger, with a table-top you have a ton of long-grain to long-grain contact, the whole needing screws thing sounds like poly-glue propaganda

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 1754 days


#5 posted 12-21-2013 04:22 AM

To simplify my life, I just buy TB3 for my PVA glue needs. But yeah, any of the TB line will do just fine for your table, with no need for mechanical reinforcement. Dowels can be helpful for alignment but not needed for structural support.

-- John, BC, Canada

View harum's profile

harum

216 posts in 1111 days


#6 posted 12-21-2013 05:15 AM

Appreciate all the replies and the Fine Woodworking article. TB it is!

-- "If you're not counting the ripples when throwing pebbles in the water, you're wasting your time."

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3131 days


#7 posted 12-21-2013 07:04 PM

FWIW … I have never bought into the line that polyurethane glues (e.g. Gorlilla Glue) is stronger than PVA.

I think it is weaker, an opinion that seems to be borne out in tests recently done by Matthias Wandel ( see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUWu-N85oXM ).

In fairness, his test was first aimed at determining the gap-filling properties, but IMHO his results also speak to strength as well.

I have had polyurethane joints fail, but never a PVA joint.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View jmartel's profile

jmartel

6579 posts in 1618 days


#8 posted 12-21-2013 07:35 PM

I just use Titebond II for everything except for cutting boards (I use Titebond III due to waterproofness for that). Buy it by the gallon and call it good.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4459 posts in 3428 days


#9 posted 12-21-2013 07:40 PM

PVA glues, whether Titebond or Gorilla or some other brand, are just fine.
I’ve been using the Gorilla PVA ‘cause it seems to have a quicker “grab” time. I tend to glue/assemble in component segments. It keeps me from having the panic of a big glue up with short time requirements.
Where did you find the info about PVA needing mechanical “help”?
BTW, water PROOF and water RESISTANT are totally different features.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View harum's profile

harum

216 posts in 1111 days


#10 posted 12-22-2013 04:41 PM

Bill, thank you for the advice. Here is the link on “mechanical support”: “http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infadh/infadhe.html”. Or a quote from the source:

“Though widely used by woodworkers, PVA’s are not really suitable as a primary adhesive or for edge gluing… attaching boards together to make wide surfaces such as tabletops or other furniture. They are “plastic”, so without other supporting fasteners such as screws or nails, metal reinforcements or dowels, the glued joints will eventually break apart. For pro-quality wood gluing where extra fasteners might get in the way, read the sections in this chapter on polyurethane glue and hide glues.”

”... will eventually break apart.”—hmm…, don’t want that.

-- "If you're not counting the ripples when throwing pebbles in the water, you're wasting your time."

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

4997 posts in 3131 days


#11 posted 12-22-2013 05:11 PM

Hmmm … never heard of Jerry Alonzy. I wonder what he bases his opinion on?

I have seen countless demonstrations (both online and at woodworking shows and seminars) that tend to prove just the opposite. In every instance I have seen, breaking an edge-glued joint that was done with a PVA (e.g. TiteBond I, II, or III) results in the wood fibers on either side of the joint failing rather than the glue joint itself. Thus it can be concluded that the glue joint is stronger than the wood itself.

I guess it comes down to a choice of who you are going to believe.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View JonHitThingWithRock's profile

JonHitThingWithRock

97 posts in 1190 days


#12 posted 12-22-2013 07:43 PM

I bet he was paid by gorilla to help drum up sales of polyurethane glue, might just be my inner conspiracy theorist talking

View Dallas's profile

Dallas

3599 posts in 1955 days


#13 posted 12-22-2013 07:50 PM

edited

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

View teejk's profile

teejk

1215 posts in 2152 days


#14 posted 12-22-2013 08:24 PM

JMartel…you must use more glue than I do! I find it hard to use the quart size bottles before they get unusable.

I have moved to TBII for everything. I really like it because I think it finishes much better than the older “yellow glues” (Elmer’s/TB I, etc).

View harum's profile

harum

216 posts in 1111 days


#15 posted 12-22-2013 10:24 PM

Well, formally, there is no contradiction between the two articles mentioned above. They talk about relative glue strengths at different time scales: in one article, the joints seemed to be tested shortly after glues dried; in the other, the author says “eventually”, which may mean anything, weeks, months, or years. Hard to tell…

-- "If you're not counting the ripples when throwing pebbles in the water, you're wasting your time."

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