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Forum topic by Jerry posted 12-01-2013 11:43 PM 1286 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jerry

1767 posts in 1110 days


12-01-2013 11:43 PM

Okay, here is a design I’ve worked on for several days. I’m nowhere close to building this yet, I still have to get the other little monitor table done, but I’d be interested in your responses to the design. Any and all comments both positive or critical will be very much appreciated.

Anyone who wants the Sketchup file to disassemble this please PM me with your email address and I will send it to you.

-- There are good ships and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are friendships and may they always be. http://geraldlhunsucker.com/


10 replies so far

View Mark Kornell's profile

Mark Kornell

1061 posts in 1992 days


#1 posted 12-02-2013 12:27 AM

Nicely done SketchUp work!

Hard to get an idea of the scale. Approx 42”W x 48”H x 12”D? The wood grain texture seems to imply about 1/2 that size, though.

Like the look of the quad plugs at each door corner. If you are planning to peg the tenons, you’d only need to peg 2 per corner.

The hinges look to be insufficient. You can probably get away with 2 hinges (although I’d be tempted to go with 3), but they should be closer to the top/bottom and also be beefier.

I’d use more horizontal muntins in the doors. The presence of the shelves behind the door seems to beg for muntins to hide the shelf edges.

The tusk tenons look nicely scaled to the piece. Are they functional? If so, I wonder if the tusks would break out the tenons when properly wedged as there’s not a whole lot of wood at that point. The end of the tenons may need to stick out a bit more.

Using tusk tenons at the back looks odd. Haven’t seen that before, and I’d question the need to do it that way if it is for a functional reason. Trapping the back in a tightly-fitting rabbet would be sufficient to prevent racking and still allow the piece to be knocked apart if necessary.

-- Mark Kornell, Kornell Wood Design

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Loren

8301 posts in 3109 days


#2 posted 12-02-2013 12:44 AM

It may be tricky to get those doors to close flush like that. I don’t
know the style well enough to say you can’t put a Euro style
door system on a case in the style, but I’d think on it.

When I say “tricky” I don’t mean impossible. Just fussy, and
something to think about. Doors twist sometimes and the
old style hinges don’t allow for adjustment where they
come together.

I’m not sure the purpose of the tusk tenons on the back.
Are they frame ends?

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Jerry

1767 posts in 1110 days


#3 posted 12-02-2013 12:56 AM

Hi Mark,

Thanks, I’m still learning how to use Sketchup.

Dimensions follow

60” High, 48” Wide, 17” Deep

RE: Like the look of the quad plugs at each door corner. If you are planning to peg the tenons, you’d only need to peg 2 per corner.

I do like the look of that too, but maybe I will only peg two per corner and make the other two decorative.

RE: The hinges look to be insufficient. You can probably get away with 2 hinges (although I’d be tempted to go with 3), but they should be closer to the top/bottom and also be beefier.

You are no doubt correct about that. I actually created the hinges in Sketchup, so the scale is probably wrong for this size piece.

RE: I’d use more horizontal muntins in the doors. The presence of the shelves behind the door seems to beg for muntins to hide the shelf edges.

That is a design preference I think I will stay with for this reason. I”ve noticed that a lot of the mission furniture has motifs and design cues throughout signifying Christianity. In this case I chose that muntin design because it looks like a cross.

RE: The tusk tenons look nicely scaled to the piece. Are they functional? If so, I wonder if the tusks would break out the tenons when properly wedged as there’s not a whole lot of wood at that point. The end of the tenons may need to stick out a bit more.

That is a good point. I am planning on making them functional to a degree, but now that you mention it, I could easily reinforce them with a steel backing plate on the back side next to the wall.

RE: Using tusk tenons at the back looks odd. Haven’t seen that before, and I’d question the need to do it that way if it is for a functional reason. Trapping the back in a tightly-fitting rabbet would be sufficient to prevent racking and still allow the piece to be knocked apart if necessary.

That is a design idea I came up with after studying other Stickley pieces. I am still trying to find my design “voice” and have designed some real stinkers so far, and one or two good pieces. That is why I am soliciting the advice of forum members to help keep me out of trouble. You may very well be right about this, and I may revise this part of the design down the road. Thank you for your extremely detailed critique, it is MOST appreciated.

-- There are good ships and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are friendships and may they always be. http://geraldlhunsucker.com/

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Jerry

1767 posts in 1110 days


#4 posted 12-02-2013 01:03 AM

RE: It may be tricky to get those doors to close flush like that. I don’t
know the style well enough to say you can’t put a Euro style
door system on a case in the style, but I’d think on it.

When I say “tricky” I don’t mean impossible. Just fussy, and
something to think about. Doors twist sometimes and the
old style hinges don’t allow for adjustment where they
come together.

This is the style of hinge I’m planning on using, it’s a non-mortise hinge

RE: I’m not sure the purpose of the tusk tenons on the back.
Are they frame ends?

The are part of the back and are designed to hold the back onto the frame.

-- There are good ships and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are friendships and may they always be. http://geraldlhunsucker.com/

View Mark Kornell's profile

Mark Kornell

1061 posts in 1992 days


#5 posted 12-03-2013 03:09 AM

Jerry,

RE: I’d use more horizontal muntins in the doors. The presence of the shelves behind the door seems to beg for muntins to hide the shelf edges.

That is a design preference I think I will stay with for this reason. I”ve noticed that a lot of the mission furniture has motifs and design cues throughout signifying Christianity. In this case I chose that muntin design because it looks like a cross.

That was my first thought when I looked at the door, so if you wanted Christian iconography to be recognized in your bookcase, you succeeded in at least one case.

However… Given the height of the door, I’d recommend using a middle rail. It will help keeping the door straight, especially with the heavy glass panel. Might be an opportunity to get two crosses per door.

RE: The tusk tenons look nicely scaled to the piece. Are they functional? If so, I wonder if the tusks would break out the tenons when properly wedged as there’s not a whole lot of wood at that point. The end of the tenons may need to stick out a bit more.

That is a good point. I am planning on making them functional to a degree, but now that you mention it, I could easily reinforce them with a steel backing plate on the back side next to the wall.

I’m not sure what you’re envisioning there. The issue is the force created by wedging the tusk between the side of the case and the back of the mortise through the tenon. There is a lot of force directed into a very small area, and if there isn’t a sufficient amount of wood between the back edge of the mortise and the end of the tenon, the tenon can easily break in that area. So you need to ensure sufficient length between the end of the tenon and the back edge of the mortice. Given the piece’s scale, at least an inch. Maybe more.

-- Mark Kornell, Kornell Wood Design

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Jerry

1767 posts in 1110 days


#6 posted 12-03-2013 08:59 PM

This is what I was envisioning

-- There are good ships and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are friendships and may they always be. http://geraldlhunsucker.com/

View Mark Kornell's profile

Mark Kornell

1061 posts in 1992 days


#7 posted 12-04-2013 03:09 AM

That looks like it could work. I’d be tempted to make it out of brass for workability, and use screws to hold it in place in addition to the epoxy.

You’d also need to do it for the tenons on the top and bottom.

Brings up another point – if you have the tusks sticking out behind of the piece, you won’t be able to place it flush against a wall.

-- Mark Kornell, Kornell Wood Design

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Loren

8301 posts in 3109 days


#8 posted 12-04-2013 03:18 AM

Well, I think it’s an interesting piece but a tad overdone on
the details. If you screw it to a wall as an elevated piece,
that’s ok, but I wouldn’t put it on the floor without a plinth.
If you put it on top of something else there’s the question
of the form the something else takes.

It will look good if you build as is. Nobody will complain.
I’m always looking for the fine aesthetic edge in design
that turns the well-made into something more and I
have reservations about the use of tusk tenons and
the clustering of peg details so closely. A lot depends
on the aesthetic sense you like and of course color
and wood selection are important.

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Jerry

1767 posts in 1110 days


#9 posted 12-04-2013 03:20 AM

RE: I’d be tempted to make it out of brass for workability

Brass is a great idea, it would be plenty strong enough, and would look great against the wood.

RE: and use screws to hold it in place in addition to the epoxy.

I considered this, but as you pointed out, with so little wood, the danger is that the wood will break. Adding screws would only weaken it further, and the right kind of epoxy will hold better than screws ever would.

RE: if you have the tusks sticking out behind of the piece, you won’t be able to place it flush against a wall.

Not really concerned about that.

-- There are good ships and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are friendships and may they always be. http://geraldlhunsucker.com/

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Jerry

1767 posts in 1110 days


#10 posted 12-04-2013 03:29 AM

Loren, you bring up some extremely valid points with regards to how busy the design is, and this is by no means the final iteration. I have already begun to re-think the details. If I do modify it, the tusk tenons on the rear panel will probably be what gets cut, per Mark’s suggestion. With regards to the plinth. I believe that a properly supported bottom panel will eliminate the need for that, but please share your thoughts and reasons on that anyway, I want to hear them.

With regard to the clustering of pegs, I’m assuming you mean the ones on the doors. I’ve looked at fewer, and I like this better. In terms of wood, I’m going for Oak, fumed if I can manage it, finished dark if not, but still lighter than the pegs you mention. The fixtures will be standard Stickley fare with pyramid screws and the pegs will be ebony.

I may cast the hinges myself.

-- There are good ships and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are friendships and may they always be. http://geraldlhunsucker.com/

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