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Forum topic by CudaDude posted 275 days ago 739 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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CudaDude

106 posts in 910 days


275 days ago

Hope I put this in the right section. My FIL pretty much wired this in for me. He’s an old school electrician and may not be up to code. I’ve got 3 wires coming from the main panel (black, red, white). I’m trying to figure out the white and ground. The white comes from the main panel neutral buss and goes to what you see in the pic and that’s all. Does this provide ground also?

Another question is outlets that I install in the garage. If the sub panel is correct where do I put the neutral and ground going to the wall outlets?

BTW the small white is going out to a 220v

Specifics: Installed last Dec. 60a breaker at the main service panel going to the sub which has 4 slots for breakers but he told me to get the thin breakers so I could have up to 8 circuits, 2 of which are dedicated to the 220. No ground rods and from what I’ve gathered browsing the web there’s no ground from the main panel either.

-- Gary


21 replies so far

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TopamaxSurvivor

14609 posts in 2278 days


#1 posted 275 days ago

Gary, Your ground and neutral need to be separate beyond the main panel. A ground needs to come from there to a ground buss attached to the panel. The neutral buss needs to have the copper bonding jumper attached to the panel removed. You should have the installation inspected.

In the sub-panel, the outlets neutral and ground go to separate places. To the same in the main panel.

That small white wire on the neutral buss has to go to 110. It can’t be 220.

Good luck.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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1yeldud1

286 posts in 1644 days


#2 posted 275 days ago

I believe you are to have a ground rod where the wire comes off the city’s pole and another one at the meter base. My next door neighbor lost their brick house to an electrical fire that originated in the wiring between the main panel and the sub panel – only a 16 inch run of wire but it cost them a $100,000.00 house – are the black and red wire coming off a breaker in the main box or are the wired directly into where the main lug wires connect to the main breaker box – please be careful

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1yeldud1

286 posts in 1644 days


#3 posted 275 days ago

topamaxsurvivor am I correct as to the ground ?

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bbrewer

42 posts in 577 days


#4 posted 275 days ago

I think topamaxsurvivor is correct that subfeed panel needs to be grounded with a separate ground wire to the main panel the power comes from, not grounded separately.

-- Tom southern MI

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Dallas

2857 posts in 1089 days


#5 posted 275 days ago

Looks to me, and I have had a few beers, like the 3rd from the bottom is bonding ground to neutral.
Ground to neutral must only be bonded at one point, that is in the main box.
It is not legal, (as far as I know), to bond ground and neutral anywhere else.

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

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1yeldud1

286 posts in 1644 days


#6 posted 275 days ago

bbrewer -I was talking about the actual ground rods at the pole and the meter base – sorry for the confusion

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CudaDude

106 posts in 910 days


#7 posted 275 days ago

TopamaxSurvivor, This panel only has 1 buss. Do I need to add another buss that’s directly attached to the panel, or should I get a different panel that has 2 separate busses(1 neut, 1 grnd.)? I’m positive that the small white gose to the ground screw on a 220 outlet.

1yeldud1, Yes it’s going to a 60a breaker in the main panel.

-- Gary

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CudaDude

106 posts in 910 days


#8 posted 275 days ago

FWIW the neutral and ground are at separate busses in the main panel. That means they’re NOT bonded, correct?

Out of curiosity. Is this setup wrong, or just not to current code? Reason being is, I am down to the wire on a Birthday gift I need to get built for my daughter and I need to get power to some outlets I installed. Can I temporarily leave it as is?

-- Gary

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TopamaxSurvivor

14609 posts in 2278 days


#9 posted 275 days ago

CudaDude,You need to have a buss like this attached to the panel with machine screws, not sheet metal screws. When you remove the bonding jumper, the existing neutral buss will be isolated form ground.

1yeldud1 Probably, depending on where you are. In WA, the power company has a ground rod at the pole. The main panel has 2 at least 6 feet apart.


Ground and neutral are always separate after being bonded at the main service panel or disconnect.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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TopamaxSurvivor

14609 posts in 2278 days


#10 posted 275 days ago

CudaDude, The neutral and ground are supposed to be bonded at the service disconnect. Sounds like you may have another location outside that panel or they just look separate to you.

The sub-panel is not to code and therefore not correct.

You should get an electrician to verify the installation and make corrections as necessary.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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TopamaxSurvivor

14609 posts in 2278 days


#11 posted 275 days ago

BTW, your main panel may have a ground buss separate form the neutrals. If the bonding is correct, that may be legal in the main panel.

Nothing in this life is simple! Especially electricity ;-)

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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CudaDude

106 posts in 910 days


#12 posted 275 days ago

TopamaxSurvivor, I took another look at the main panel and the neut and grd are bonded there. This was a very cheap sub panel, probably why it only has one buss. Thanks so much for the info.

-- Gary

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TopamaxSurvivor

14609 posts in 2278 days


#13 posted 275 days ago

Lots of the small panels require adding a grounding kit if used as a subpanel. UR Welcome. ;-)

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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Todd

216 posts in 278 days


#14 posted 275 days ago

I have a sub panel in my shop and I wired it myself according to NEC. Ground and Neutral go back to the main panel. In the sub panel ground bar and neutral bar are not connected, but there is a ground rod dedicated for my shop. I had mine inspected and it passed all inspection. If you have any doubt get an electrician. Generally, you also need a permit for this type of work,

-- Todd, Huntsville, AL

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Todd

216 posts in 278 days


#15 posted 274 days ago

Oh yeah Survivor is right. You have to purchase the ground kit separately for the subpanel. I recall doing that now. Please be careful when wiring ground/neutral. Your life may depend on it…

-- Todd, Huntsville, AL

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