LumberJocks

What do we think about the Craftsman 22116??

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by Tedstor posted 10-23-2013 06:56 PM 1241 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1291 days


10-23-2013 06:56 PM

Topic tags/keywords: 22116

So my current table saw is a Craftsman 113.298762 with a Delta T2. Generally speaking, I’m satisfied with it. But I do have a few gripes:
1- The (stock) stand its currently mounted to is a bit flimsy. I’m not afraid it will collapse or anything, but its far from solid. I could (and might) build a new stand for it.
2- The arbor has a miniscule amount of runout (under .001). I haven’t noticed any performance issue that could blamed on the arbor, so this issue (by itself) wouldn’t compel me to replace the saw. But I’m concerned the runout will get worse.
3- I have to be a bit vigilant about checking the blade aligment since the trunions tend to shift. I find myself adjusting the trunions about once every 8-12 months. The alignment is never WAY off, and only slight adjustments are necessary. Its a mental thing really. Everytime I use the saw, I think about the possibility that the blade might be out of whack. I could buy the PALS system, and might.
4- Dust collection is deplorable. Again, I realize there are ways around this.
5- RUST. For whatever reason, my new garage/shop stays VERY humid. The cast iron top on the 113 requires constant attention to keep the surface rust at bay. I never had this issue in my old house. But now I do. I’m not anal enough wax-down my saw after every use. This is a complaint about my shop, not the saw. But its still an issue.

So all my concerns could be resolved with modest effort. And I’m tempted to just make these improvements and hang on to the saw for the forseeable future. But another part of me wants to just upgrade to a higher-end contractor saw or a low-end cabinet saw, which will resolve my current concerns. Something in the $800-$1000 neighborhood. So I ask myself “why go to the trouble to improve a saw that you’ll likely move-on from anyway? Why not just buy a new saw that will meet your needs for the next 20 years”.

All this has led me to do some light research on my new tablesaw options. So far, the Craftsman 22116 is a possible contender. Its a 450lb saw on a cabinet-style base. Should resolve my concerns about the open-leg stand and dust collection issues. Cabinet mounted trunion should be easier to adjust, and hold its adjustments better than my contractor saw. The stock fence looks pretty good. Probably as good as my Delta T2. And I suppose I could mount the T2 on the new saw if I didn’t like the stock fence.
This saw also has a granite top. I REALLY like my magnetic featherboard and other magnetic jigs. And I’ve always poo-poo’d granite tops. But it would resolve my corrosion issues. So the idea of a granite top saw is starting to grow on me.
The price of the 22116 is typically around $950. I’m hoping that Black Friday might push it down to around $900. If I get creative with coupons and cash-back offers, I might be able to pull the trigger for $850ish.

And I’m not opposed to a used saw. If the right deal presented itself, I’d jump on it. But I don’t want (can’t accomodate) an industrial-rated monster with a huge fence, and I don’t really want to run a 220v line to my garage. So many of the cabniet saws I see on CL would be disqualified. And most of the contractor saws I see aren’t much better than what I already have. I do have to store my TS against my garage wall when not in use. So a small cabinet saw is probably about as big as I could go.

Anyway- your thoughts about the 22116 are welcomed and encouraged.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-1-3-4-hp-premium-hybrid-10inch/p-00922116000P?prdNo=8&blockNo=8&blockType=G8


11 replies so far

View jonah's profile

jonah

453 posts in 1957 days


#1 posted 10-23-2013 07:25 PM

Seems to me that you could pick up one of these:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0715P

For the same or less money. I think the Grizzly is a better saw. It’s also cast iron, which for you sounds like a plus.

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1291 days


#2 posted 10-23-2013 07:36 PM

Why do you feel the Grizzly is better?
I haven’t looked into the grizzly to any great depth, but my only initial hang-ups about that grizzly are:
- As I understand, the Grizzly has table-mounted trunions. The Craftsman is cabinet-mounted. The conventional wisdom seems to favor the cabinet-mounted configuration. But I can’t speak from personal experience.
- The Grizzly would have to be delivered, which isn’t a deal-breaker. But I do prefer to buy locally. That way, I can easily return it if there is a problem. The craftsman can be delivered to my local store for free.
- While cast-iron is desirable, in my high-humidity garage, the granite top might be better….and apparently heavier.

View MarkwithaK's profile

MarkwithaK

370 posts in 1836 days


#3 posted 10-23-2013 08:13 PM

I have no experience with the Crafstman but I do have extensive experience with the similar Ridgid branded version as they are both made by Steel City, or so I’m told. Personally I love the granite top. My shop is like yours in that it seems to retain a lot of humidity. Cast iron would have rusted just as everything else that is metal in there but of course the granite doesn’t not to mention that will remain flat. One thing I have noticed though is that when the night time temps drop a bit and then the humidity increases the granite has a tendency to condense when the warm air meets the cooler surface of the top. No big deal really I just remember to wipe it down before I use it. The obvious issues of having granite as opposed to cast iron is that is more fragile. Some folks seem to go on as if they expect it to crack if you look at it wrong but let’s be real. It’s every bit of 1.5 – 2 inches thick. Personally I do not tend to use mine as a workbench or anvil so the fragility of it is a moot point for me. The plus side i have adhered sandpaper to it and used it to lap the sole of a hand plane. The real weak point is the miter slots. They are machined into t-tracks and you will need to be mindful of that. I have a small chip on one but that was due to my own negligence when taking the miter gauge off. Also I have found that there is a slight discrepancy along one where it is a wee bit tighter than the rest of it. So far it hasn’t been a major issue.

The 1.75P motor has been fine. I have managed to bog it down and even cause it to trip it’s breaker but I suspect that is mainly due to an increased feed rate coupled with a rather dull blade on dimensional lumber. The only other instance that comes to mind was a board that was case hardened. For the most part though it has been fine with .75” thick maple. Mine is currently wired up to operate off of 110VAC.

The fence appears to be different so I can’t really comment much on that as it might not apply to the one you are considering.

-- If at first you don't succeed then maybe skydiving isn't for you.

View crank49's profile

crank49

3435 posts in 1629 days


#4 posted 10-23-2013 08:55 PM

The Craftsman is, as I understand it, the same as a Steel City. The Steel City is available as granite, or cast iron with wings of either steel, iron or granite.

A new saw with riving knife and base mounted trunnions is a big plus in my opinion.

I have the Craftsman 21833, which is the Ridgid 4512 and I have the alignment issue with mine. But this saw, although it’s decent if you get one without the problem, is very light weight from an engineering point of view and it has table mounted trunnions.

Can you run a dehumidifier in your garage? I did that in my basement shop and rust problems went away..

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View lieutenantdan's profile

lieutenantdan

176 posts in 964 days


#5 posted 10-23-2013 10:15 PM

I have a rescued 4511 with a Bies fence. I love the granite top.

-- "Of all the things I have lost in life, I miss my mind the most."

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5473 posts in 2034 days


#6 posted 10-24-2013 01:08 AM

I owned the 22124 for 3-1/2 years before I landed a great deal on a 3hp cabinet saw…it was the predecessor to the 22116, and was also made by Steel City. It replaced a very good General International contractor saw, and was an upgrade in nearly every aspect….it was heavier, wider, had better DC, a stouter fence, better drive system, and a smaller footprint. I took some flack because the nameplate said “Craftsman”, but it was a great saw IMO….I had no regrets. The 22116 is an updated version of that saw that offers a granite top instead of cast iron, a one piece cast arbor carriage. If you’re comfortable with the granite, it’s a definite contender for a 120v hybrid saw.

If 220v wouldn’t be too tough to install, I’d urge you to at least consider taking the jump to a 3hp cabinet saw.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1291 days


#7 posted 10-24-2013 01:46 AM

I dunno Scott. My service panel is on the opposite side of of my house from the garage. Its a pretty long run. I suppose if a got a smokin’, giveaway deal on a 3hp machine, it might make economic sense to have the circuit installed. I’m guessing the circuit would cost $300ish. But even then, I’m thinking that most 3hp+ machines would be a bit too big for my small shop. But I honestly haven’t given it much thought since I don’t currently have 220v service. I’ll have to investigate further.

As far as the Craftsman nameplate is concerned- I’ll take flack all day IF the machine in question performs well. I have a Craftsman 7.25” sliding miter saw that kicks ass. Heck, my current Craftsman tablesaw is 20+ years old and still performs pretty damn well too. But I know you judge tools individually, so I’m preaching to the chior.

If you asked me three months ago if I’d buy a granite saw, I’d have said ‘No….never”. I just never saw any advantage over cast iron. But now that my shop is located in a high-humidity environment, granite makes a lot more sense. I don’t see any performance issues with granite. I just feel the possibility of damage is much greater (even if the chances of catastrophic damge is slim). But I suppose Granite is just uproven technology in my mind; and my worries are unfounded. I have granite countertops in my kitchen and they aren’t falling apart around me. And lets face it, a cast iron surface will DEFINITELY suffer in my garage.

Anyway, the 22116 is currently out of stock and I don’t think I’ll consider a purchase unless I can get it for under $900. So it might be moot. Worst case, I’ll just nurse-up the 113 and shelve the new TS idea for a few more years.

To all-Thanks for the insights.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5473 posts in 2034 days


#8 posted 10-24-2013 01:57 AM

”But even then, I’m thinking that most 3hp+ machines would be a bit too big for my small shop. ”

Not trying to talk you into anything, but the footprint for a standard setup should be about the same for a hybrid and cabinet saw. It isn’t until you add 50” rip capacity that the footprint gets any bigger, and you can add that to any full size saw. The top on a standard full size saw is ~ 27” x ~ 40” wide with the wings…some would be 44” W. What is different lies under the hood.


-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View toolie's profile

toolie

1762 posts in 1287 days


#9 posted 10-24-2013 02:00 AM

I’ll just nurse-up the 113 and shelve the new TS idea for a few more years.

good alternative. a well set up 113 will last an awfully long time.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View CincyRW's profile

CincyRW

67 posts in 309 days


#10 posted 11-18-2013 05:32 PM

Tedstor -

Not sure if you’ve purchased your saw yet. I bought the 22116 on sale a little over a month ago. This was an enormous step up from where I was, and I’m just beginning so keep that in mind.

Overall, I really like this saw. I got a pretty good deal at just over $700 + $60 delivery. I also immediately purchased a good blade (Irwin Marples) and the Jet mobile base.

So far, I have no complaints about the granite. If you take reasonable precautions (dont use a hammer on it) I dont think you’ll have any problems.

What I like –
Powerful – does everything I ask of it.
Big & solid – not going anywhere
Cabinet mounted trunions
Fence – more accurate than anything I’m used to using. Very solid feel.
Kill switch – easy to hit with your thigh if you see something you dont like mid cut.
Relative ease to upgrade to 220V
Its quiet. The loudest sound is the air being pushed out of the way by the blade. The noise of the cut will be the loudest thing about the whole operation.

What sucks -
The riving knife alignment system is horrible. You cant make an adjustment with the blade in place. you have to tweak – put the blade back on and check, take the blade off – re-tweak, put the blade back on and check, etc. A dial indicator helps a lot here (but I just figured that out about a week ago :) ). Even then, it seems very difficult to get it right where you want it.

The guard and kickback paul attachment is difficult to get on correctly. The attachment seems flimsy. This is bad, because I find myself not using them.

What I wish I could change, but I’m sure I can live with –
Not able to use magnetic jigs and attachments – This is super convenient from what I can see. If I could have a cast iron table, I’d take it and figure out how to deal with the rust in a basement shop later.

A little more rip capacity to the right would be nice (currently 33”?), but this isnt a huge deal for what I’m doing.

For what I paid for it, I think I got a very good value. I found this at an in-store only special (usually internet prices are cheaper, but not this time).

Hope this helps

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1291 days


#11 posted 11-19-2013 05:34 PM

Thanks for the reply.
I’ve actually decided to go a different route. A 315 series Contractor saw recently popped-up for $100. Its the Ryobi clone of the Emerson 113. Its in nice shape, barely used, and has a mobile base and router table wing.
I’m going to put the Delta T2 on the 315, and part-out the rest of the 113.
I’m going to order a Makita track saw. I’m hoping between the track saw and the 315, there won’t be a whole lot I can’t get done.

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase