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Is Sawstop the last word?

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Forum topic by MrRon posted 10-05-2013 06:56 PM 2235 views 0 times favorited 74 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MrRon

2991 posts in 1996 days


10-05-2013 06:56 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

We have the Sawstop, but what have the Euro saw makers done in the field of safety. I’m certain they take safety very seriously. Maybe they have something better than Sawstop???


74 replies so far

View scotsman9's profile

scotsman9

134 posts in 642 days


#1 posted 10-05-2013 07:02 PM

Only other technology I’ve seen so far….not an expert and I don’t research this stuff but here is what I’ve seen:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/40477/blade-brake-inventor-aims-to-compete-with-sawstop

-- Just a man and his opinion.

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3992 posts in 2416 days


#2 posted 10-05-2013 07:14 PM

MrRon—Interesting question.

I think the Europeans tend to go with an entirely different design for their higher-end saws … you see a lot of sliding tables and such. There is also a much heavier emphasis on proper use of guards … there is a standard style of guard (SUVA) that is very common on Euro saws.

Maybe some of our brothers and sisters across the pond could chime in with some more authoritative info on this subject.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View crank49's profile

crank49

3524 posts in 1724 days


#3 posted 10-05-2013 07:35 PM

I think their whole approach is to use sliders, and having the work piece clamped to the slide so your hand is never near the blade.
At least that’s my take on it.
I know the pattern shop at the Belgium based foundry where I worked had only slider type saws 20 years ago, so I guess they know how it’s done by now.

I do wonder if they have inexpensive home owner type saws in Europe at all. I would really like to know this.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Terry Vaughan's profile

Terry Vaughan

40 posts in 910 days


#4 posted 10-05-2013 08:18 PM

I don’t think we have anything at all that is inexpensive. Prices on your side always look better to me!
Home owner saws don’t all have sliding tables by any means, but they do have good guarding, most won’t take a dado blade, and there is a general understanding that working with the guards off is not a good idea. Some people do it of course and sometimes they lose their fingers.

View Tooch's profile

Tooch

700 posts in 629 days


#5 posted 10-05-2013 08:34 PM

As a high school shop teacher (who just tripped my own sawstop brake… IDIOT!!), I would like to see SawStop technology on Bandsaws, chopsaws, routers and jointers, too.

-- "Well, the world needs ditch-diggers too..." - Judge Smails

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

827 posts in 1062 days


#6 posted 10-05-2013 08:57 PM

“As a high school shop teacher (who just tripped my own sawstop brake… IDIOT!!), I would like to see SawStop technology on Bandsaws, chopsaws, routers and jointers, too.”

We should extend that technology to all farm equipment too. And I know a guy who got hurt working on a car engine while it was ruining, we should have something for that too. If I had the time to sit here all day Icould name many more applications where this technology could be used.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View kaerlighedsbamsen's profile

kaerlighedsbamsen

614 posts in 466 days


#7 posted 10-05-2013 09:14 PM

The european manufacturers did their work 20-40 years ago already: permanent riving knifes, permanent top-guards with dust extraction, no means of mounting routers, dados, angled blades etc. And the whole concept of sliding tables and the way they are used leans itself to a safe position for hands and body.

For the amateur market we have the same issues (and products) as anywhere else. Mine´s a Bosch that seems to be made in Taiwan and looks essentially the same as the Makita, Metabo, Ridgid, DeWalt etc. They come with ok safety gear and is so relatively cheap that adding SawStop to them would probably double the prize.

One type of saw that is quite rare (other than 30+ years old ones) are the Delta type cabinet saws. Tryed one once and found it quite scary. Large blade, totally unprotected and really prone to kicking wood back at you..

Hope this was a bit helpfull?

-- "Do or Do not. There is no try." - Yoda

View teejk's profile

teejk

1215 posts in 1437 days


#8 posted 10-05-2013 09:25 PM

Be careful there Alaska…it might come true.

As a high school shop teacher he would serve a better purpose by teaching his students about safety on tools that they might buy on Ebay or Craigslist. I’ve yet to see a SawStop machine on either site. And just to fully explain my position, anybody getting hurt on a well tuned bandsaw should give up the hobby and take up knitting (retractable guards on the sharp ends of course).

Now back to Europe…they are “green” and have little space for woodworking. That’s why IKEA got so big.

View Tooch's profile

Tooch

700 posts in 629 days


#9 posted 10-05-2013 09:35 PM

teejk I understand your position on teaching kids not to rely on the Sawstop Technology… but accidents do happen…. here’s 2 examples of guys (both old enough to know how to operate the respective machines) that got jacked up-

Chop saw accident:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkCPensRC7E&list=PLAD12D13678E76A5E

Bandsaw Accident:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnvbI5SeXq0&list=PLAD12D13678E76A5E
(the good stuff starts around 1:20)

We also had a kid walk up to a bandsaw that he thought was off, went to adjust the guard and found out the blade was still running… cut halfway through his pointer finger’s nail. Accidents happen, to people of all ages and ability levels.

Just to fully explain my position- I don’t hold much esteem in the opinions or abilities of a person with no posts of their OWN projects. Not hating, just saying.

-- "Well, the world needs ditch-diggers too..." - Judge Smails

View teejk's profile

teejk

1215 posts in 1437 days


#10 posted 10-05-2013 10:07 PM

How many pictures do you want Tooch? I prefer spending time making stuff instead of trying to figure out my camera and software that would make you happy.

If you can’t keep a kid out of a running bandsaw (they do make some noise you know) then maybe I better understand why shop classes are becoming dinosaurs. I’ll repeat my point…if you are successful in getting kids into the hobby, they will most likely start acquiring the tools on the used market (and I’ll ask for a show of hands on this board on that question). You do them no favors by making them think they won’t get hurt because of technology that they can’t afford.

Any tool can hurt you. The people bringing power to your house probably spend more of their time learning how not to do something than learning about how to do something. Hunter safety classes are more about what not to do than what to do. I can go on with more examples but somehow I think it would be a waste of time.

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

1929 posts in 551 days


#11 posted 10-05-2013 10:13 PM

Why won’t Euro TS allow for dado blades?

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View Terry Vaughan's profile

Terry Vaughan

40 posts in 910 days


#12 posted 10-05-2013 11:10 PM

I don’t know the full legal explanation. A few saws do allow them but most have short arbors that wont take a dado set. There are practical reasons. The top guard is often carried by the riving knife so both would have to be removed for trenching cuts. This is not allowed by workplace safety regulations unless alternative guards are fitted (same applies to the standard blade. Only through cuts are permitted.)
The heavy dado set can increase the run-down time, which is limited by the same regulations. Trenching is better done with a router, according to many people over here.

These regulations don’t apply to home users.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2991 posts in 1996 days


#13 posted 10-05-2013 11:20 PM

Terry Vaughn, “These regulations don’t apply to home users.”
Does this mean saw manufacturers make saws with short and long arbors to satisfy the home user? Are dado blades sold over there to home users?

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1007 posts in 1618 days


#14 posted 10-05-2013 11:23 PM

I dont know about saw stop technology on a router, can you imagine the force a router would generate if it suddenly stopped, it would probably fly out of your hand and through your shop wall.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2991 posts in 1996 days


#15 posted 10-05-2013 11:28 PM

Alaska Guy, Wow, you will get a lot of negative feedback on that one; I for one. How can you teach safety if nothing can cause injury? There has to be a potential for injury, before you can teach safety. If you never experience an accident, you don’t learn from it. That’s the way it always has been. If you are lucky, you get away with a nick and that is usually enough to teach you not to put your fingers in the blade. I don’t see any really foolproof way to teach safety.

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