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Rigid 4512 with a Beise fence or a Grizzly G0715P

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Forum topic by jdewb posted 09-24-2013 03:41 PM 1456 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jdewb

15 posts in 461 days


09-24-2013 03:41 PM

Someone in my area is selling a 4512 with a lifetime warranty for about half the price as what a G0715P is going for after shipping costs.
Can someone chime in what is the better deal?
Both have a 30” rip capacity.


19 replies so far

View deezldub's profile

deezldub

13 posts in 612 days


#1 posted 09-24-2013 04:06 PM

Just an observation to take all the potential realities into consideration.

The 4512 is a nice saw, but some have had issues with blade alignment that is changing as blade elevation changes.

The rigid warranty is actually a service contract, apparently the coverage requires you getting the saw to them for service, and that would be pricey if they dont have a local service bureau

The rigid extended service contract likely does NOT transfer to the new owner.

The Biesemeyer fence is really attractive sweetener.

The G0715P has a Biesemeyer clone fence that is highly regarded by users.

Having just rebuilt a grizzly cabinet saw that is almost 20 years old, I can say that Grizzly service had everything i needed and many parts that I had zero expectations of them having. My grizzly was abused by the previous owner, and grizzly offered phone support that helped me make sense of the issues I found and had parts in stock.

Nothing against rigid, I own quite a few of their tools, including a portable tablesaw (2400-1) and like it but I really doubt that they will have parts for the 4512 10 years into the future.

If the rigid is $400 (less than 1/2 of the $900 landed price of the grizzly?) with the biesemeyer fence and is confirmed that the blade alignment issue doesnt affect your saw then it sounds like a pretty good deal considering that the fence system is $360 alone.Above $500 and I’d go with the grizzly.

-- Steve

View tefinn's profile

tefinn

1220 posts in 1189 days


#2 posted 09-24-2013 04:06 PM

The Ridgid doesn’t have a lifetime warranty, it has a lifetime service agreement. Big difference there. You get lifetime service provided you take or ship it to the servicing company. It must also have been registered when it was purchased.

-- Tom Finnigan - Measures? We don't need no stinking measures! - Hmm, maybe thats why my project pieces don't fit.

View crank49's profile

crank49

3524 posts in 1723 days


#3 posted 09-24-2013 04:59 PM

I have the Craftsman 21833, the same saw as the Ridgid R4512.

Mine has the defect that Sears or Ridgid or Dayton or anybody else sells this saw will act like it doesn’t exist.
Believe me, it DOES exist. There are discussions about this saw all over this website.
Read some of them.

I would take the Grizzly in a heart beat before the Ridgid.

But, given any other choice I really prefer a Steel City with cabinet mounted trunnions for about the same price as the Grizzly, or less.

Yes, that is a good fence. If you want to pay $400 for a fence, have at.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View jdewb's profile

jdewb

15 posts in 461 days


#4 posted 09-24-2013 05:09 PM

Haha honestly I didn’t expect it to take three days for this post to actually make it onto the forums.
I went and looked at the saw, and the guy who was selling it said he was really happy with it. He said the only reason he was selling it is because he decided to go ahead and purchase a SawStop saw.
The saw came with Beise fence, a zero clearance insert, a dado insert, a 8” freud dado blade, and a featherboard.
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/tls/4020907806.html
The used saw market in my area is pretty terrible, so I went ahead and jumped on it. I got the saw for $500 bones and I am going to spend the savings on some other tools that I don’t have already. I was thinking about getting a biscuit joiner, a bench-top drill press and some clamps.
I live in a duplex with a single car garage, so I have zero workroom. I wanted to get a hybrid saw to save space, but I would much rather have a cabinet saw. I saw this as a good opportunity to get a good saw with a great fence system for not a ton of cash. That way when my wife and I decide to buy a home, and I have more space; I can go ahead and get the cabinet saw that I much rather have.

P.S.
According to rigid’s website they have a service center about 20 minutes from my house.

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jdewb

15 posts in 461 days


#5 posted 09-24-2013 05:22 PM

I really appreciate everyones input!!
Thanks so much!

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

386 posts in 1194 days


#6 posted 09-24-2013 05:35 PM

Having spent some time with both saws…. all things being equal (ie, ignoring price and both saws working properly), I think the Grizzly is a no brainer simply because of the availability of replacement parts. I’ve heard stories in the past about people with Ridgid tools with the LLSA that’s pretty much worthless because of the lack of spares. Also keep in mind the LLSA doesn’t transfer, so don’t count on that. I’ve got a few Ridgid tools myself and they work great, but I think that warranty of theirs is marketing fluff only. On top of all of that, you get cast iron wings on the 0715 vs stamped steel and a real cabinet versus the open one.

That being said, you mentioned that the R4512 that’s being sold is half the price of the Grizzly. IMO that’s a pretty tempting deal IF AND ONLY IF you can verify that the alignment problems don’t exist. Don’t rely on just the date code on the saw either, you have to actually check. There’s some out there that have suggested that the problem has been fixed in a later production run – that’s simply not true. I’ve seen several of these saws of varying dates and some had the problem while others didn’t. I suspect the issue is simply due to relaxed QC measures to meet a price point. Some will be good; others will not.

There’s two problems that the Ridgid seems to exhibit. One is a blade shift when the blade is raised. It tends to shift 0.01-0.02 while being raised, but it will fall back in line when lowered. After lowering the blade, it seems to also keep its parallelism with the miter slot. As such, there’s some people out there with this problem on this saw that are okay with it; they just remember to lower the blade slightly every time before cutting. It’s up to you if this is acceptable.

The other problem is alignment to the miter slot. I tried two different saws and I couldn’t get either one better than 0.015 toe in. One of them, I was able to get to about 0.001 but overnight it had somehow shifted back out of alignment. You need to check this with a dial indicator or a good combo square and feeler gauges. This is the much bigger issue and if the saw being advertised has this problem, I’d consider it a non-starter.

One other thing to consider though – the Grizzly and Ridgid actually share the identical trunnion designs, although from what I understand, they’re not made in the same factory (that’s according to the Grizzly president). There are occasional issues that you’ll read about with the G0715 w/rt alignment, but it’s very rare, suggesting that Grizzly has much better quality control on their saws. One major positive the Grizzly has in this department, though, is that if you need to adjust the trunnions, it’s much easier to do it on the Grizzly because they included an access door on the back of the cabinet. On the Ridgid, you have to get up underneath the thing. Fortunately for both saws, this isn’t something you’ll have to do very often.

I had other issues with the G0715P so that’s why I don’t have it anymore, but I seem to be the only one on the internet that had that problem. No clue why, Grizzly’s techs couldn’t figure it out either, but in the end, they stood behind their product and gave me a full refund, so thumbs up to them for that.

If it were me, I still think the Ridgid is worth checking out due to the upgraded fence and the price. I’m not sure if I consider the Grizzly to be worth double the cost of a Ridgid w/o problems. If you do decide to kick the tires, please do check the blade alignment though.

Update: Oops. In the time that I spent writing this, I saw you updated your post and said that you already got the saw. No matter, sounds like you got a pretty decent deal on it. Do still check the alignment though, even if it is out, it can be adjusted somewhat. Sound like this particular one might not have had the problem or perhaps it wasn’t that bad.

View jdewb's profile

jdewb

15 posts in 461 days


#7 posted 09-24-2013 05:50 PM

Thank you gtbuzz, I really appreciate the thought out reply to the thread. I still don’t actually have possession of the saw yet, I gave the guy a deposit to hold it for me. I asked the owner about the alignment issue and this was his reply.

John Dewberry: Hey Robert,
Sorry to bug you but have you noticed any of the alignment issues that people are talking about on the internet?

Robert: No problem. I checked the blade for square against both miter grooves and it was spot on. I always check the blade angle when cutting angles and recheck it with a square when I return it to perpendicular. The tilt scale is okay but I always use a digital angle gauge to make sure. One half degree can screw up a joint line and if you are mAking repeat rips or cuts an inaccurate cut will tend to increase exponentially. Measure twice, cut once. Once the angle is set it holds settings like a vice.
A digital angle gauge is inexpensive (around $30) and is very handy for determining weird angles and such. For perpendicular cut a try square works we’ll.
If you have any other questions contact me and I will tell all I know.

View toolie's profile

toolie

1774 posts in 1381 days


#8 posted 09-24-2013 08:43 PM

It must also have been registered when it was purchased.

to the OP, this is a key point. the LSA is only available to the saw’s original purchaser. when you buy it, there is almost NO warranty support from ridgid. in the absence of a purchase receipt, they will judge the 3 year new tool warranty from the date of manufacture that’s embedded in the serial number. if the saw’s current owner has had it for > 3 years, you’re buying a used saw with no recourse for repairs but your own wallet. it’s all right here:

http://www.ridgid.com/tools/power-tool-warranty

have you checked it for the blade to miter slot alignment changing with blade elevation problem?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5608 posts in 2128 days


#9 posted 09-24-2013 08:48 PM

The R4512 and the G0715P have very similar guts under the hood. From what I’ve been reading, it seems that the R4512 may still have ongoing alignment issues, but I haven’t read about any recently with the G0715P. If your R4512 doesn’t have the issue, you’re golden. With the Biese fence in play, the biggest functional difference between the two saws will be the steel wings vs solid cast iron offered by the G0715P….they’re “nice to have”, but not essential, and they can be added later. Just about any 27” deep cast iron wing can be made to fit.

Get it aligned, put a good blade on it, and make some dust!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

387 posts in 746 days


#10 posted 09-25-2013 04:33 AM

I would have thought the 715P would be a lot more stable with its cabinet base.

However, if you are already looking at $900 delivered, it may pay to add $500 and get the G1023RL

View jdewb's profile

jdewb

15 posts in 461 days


#11 posted 09-25-2013 05:47 AM

Actually the G1023 is the saw that I would like to get when my wife and I move into a real house. That saw is just too big for our current living situation.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1329 days


#12 posted 09-25-2013 09:52 AM

Big as in heavy?
It has pretty much the same size footprint as the 4512, 715p, most other hybrids and cabinet saws.

The bies is nice, but I would have skipped the 4512.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5608 posts in 2128 days


#13 posted 09-25-2013 10:13 AM

”That saw is just too big for our current living situation.”

As NiteWalker noted, the G1023RL has pretty much the same footprint as the G0715P and the R4512…..the main table is 27” deep by ~ 40” wide plus the fence rails. It is heavier, more powerful, more ruggedly built, has bigger handwheels and requires 220v, but it has the same standard size top as other full size saws. It isn’t until you add a fence with more rip capacity that the footprint increases significantly.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View jdewb's profile

jdewb

15 posts in 461 days


#14 posted 09-25-2013 03:00 PM

I should have been more clear. The weight was the big concern for me, and the fact that it runs on 220v didn’t help its odds either. In my one car garage unit I barely have any power to work with, and the saw will have to be on a roller base so I can flatten it up against the wall when I need to.
I know you can get roller bases for this style saw, but getting the G1023 in the first place would have been a serious stretch of my original budget when I started looking for a table saw. Adding a heavy duty roller base really just made it impossible right now.
Someday after I have outgrown this little hybrid I will step up to a full size cabinet saw. I will probably go with a large Grizzly cabinet saw like the G1023 or the next size up with a 50” ripping fence.

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

387 posts in 746 days


#15 posted 09-25-2013 03:30 PM

The 715P comes wired for 220v, you have to convert it to 110v. In either case you will need a dedicated circuit.

The 1023 is only 100# heavier.

Both saws can be mounted on roller bases.

The entire carriage is a different design, significantly stiffer and with a straight vertical adjustment. The 715P is much closer to the Ridgid and that is only a marginal upgrade.

The cost of replacing the saw would most likely exceed any initial installation cost differences.
.
Note: I was looking in the same initial price range last year. The more I researched I moved up to the 3hp. Then my wife insisted on a Sawstop.

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