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Hybrid saw filing - When to add fleam to a rip saw?

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Forum topic by chrisstef posted 08-02-2013 03:30 PM 3956 views 0 times favorited 9 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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chrisstef

15665 posts in 2469 days


08-02-2013 03:30 PM

Topic tags/keywords: hybrid filing rake fleam sash saw

Im just getting started in filing my own hand saws and have a question to you folks out there with some sharpening experience. Here’s the situation … im about to start work on a 12” 14 ppi Disston backsaw. Its a special saw to me as it was my grandfathers, it feels great in my hand, and would like it to be my go to saw for cutting joinery from dovetails to tenons. In essence it would be considered a short sash saw.

Ive been reading up on sharpening a rip saw with a bit of fleam to it. Hybrid filing I suppose. Traditionally rip saws have zero fleam. Ive been pondering filing this saw with 8-10 degrees of rake and possibly 8-10 degrees of fleam. This would allow it to both rip easier and cross cut in a pinch.

My question is when do I begin to file the fleam to the teeth? Should I shape the teeth like I would any rip saw using no fleam and reshaping just the rake angle, jointing, and then filing the fleam in during the last phase of sharpening? Or do I file in both rake and fleam during the initial shaping process, joint, then sharpen?

I guess I could simply file it with 10 degrees of rake and see how it cuts for me. If I don’t like it could I fall back and add the fleam?

Signed,
A rookie saw sharpener looking for some advice.

-- rock, chalk, jayhawk


9 replies so far

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JayT

4777 posts in 1674 days


#1 posted 08-02-2013 03:36 PM

Stef, have you read this article on the Bad Axe site about their hybrid saw filing?

-- "Good judgement is the result of experience. A lot of experience is the result of poor judgement."

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chrisstef

15665 posts in 2469 days


#2 posted 08-02-2013 03:44 PM

Hmm seems like its the only one I haven’t read but browsing through it it makes sense and confirms what im looking to do. My question is more about the process that the angles themselves.

On a rip saw I would file from one side of the saw, all the way from heel to toe, with my rake angle.

On a xcut saw you would file every other tooth, from heel to toe, with rake and fleam, flip it around and repeat.

So considering im really filing it rip but just adding a bit of fleam to ease things up do im confused as to when I add that fleam (Which requires filing every other tooth).

Great article btw JayT. Ill delve a little deeper into it this evening.

-- rock, chalk, jayhawk

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JayT

4777 posts in 1674 days


#3 posted 08-02-2013 04:17 PM

I think I’d file it lilke a crosscut, just with less rake and fleam. It sure would be a lot easier to keep the fleam angle consistent doing it that way. This paragraph in the article seems to indicate he does the same.

let me share something with you that should deflate the godawful complexity of it all: just rest your file laterally in gullet at about the one-o’clock position. Wiggle it back and forth and look at the toothline from the side, and you’ll find the preestablished rake at the same time :) See? You’ve attained roughly 12.5 degrees bevel and 10 degrees rake through common sense, like lining up a pool cue . . . and if you gank it all up, no one’s going to take you out back and beat you up if you vary a few degrees either way. As long as you’re not shortening teeth out of joint during the sharpening process, you’ll be just fine.

Granted, he is referencing re-sharpening a saw with an existing tooth geometry, not trying to create it, but in my head the principle is still sound for what you are doing. (Of course listening to the voices in my head does not always work out for the best) The only lie in the above paragraph is toward the end—if you screw it up, Andy might have to jump across the pond and thrash you. :-)

-- "Good judgement is the result of experience. A lot of experience is the result of poor judgement."

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chrisstef

15665 posts in 2469 days


#4 posted 08-02-2013 05:39 PM

I kinda read that the same way you did JayT. Once i get the saw in front if me i think ill know what to do. Appreciate all your help and suggestions.

-- rock, chalk, jayhawk

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theoldfart

8091 posts in 1914 days


#5 posted 08-02-2013 06:09 PM

Stef, looked at Matt Cianci’s site yet? I’m pretty sure he does a bit with hybrid sharpening.

-- "With every tool obtained, there is another that is needed" DonW ( Kevin )

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chrisstef

15665 posts in 2469 days


#6 posted 08-02-2013 06:44 PM

Yea, I actually emailed him asking the question. He’s got some really good write ups on his site for sure.

-- rock, chalk, jayhawk

View Tim's profile

Tim

3113 posts in 1424 days


#7 posted 08-02-2013 07:34 PM

Here's the Matt Cianci article I was thinking. I think it was you that told me I forgot to add a sash saw to my list and I didn’t know what it was. Then I found that article.

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Brit

6716 posts in 2305 days


#8 posted 08-04-2013 08:17 AM

Stef – You always shape the teeth at 90 degrees to the plate, regardless of whether your saw is for ripping or crosscutting. If you want to add fleam, it is always done at the sharpening stage.

-- Andy -- "I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free." (Michelangelo)

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chrisstef

15665 posts in 2469 days


#9 posted 08-04-2013 11:19 AM

Thanks Andy. I probably should have fallen back and watched the epic video again but fear not, i added no such fleam to the saw and actually like how it feels as it sits.

I havent filed a xcut saw yet and need to brush up on my knowledge base. Sunday night in the Stef household is ice cream and woodworking on tv. Wether you like it or not Andy youre gonna be part of it ;)

-- rock, chalk, jayhawk

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