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Advise needed on dust collector hose sizes

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Forum topic by rustythebailiff posted 07-27-2013 01:51 PM 6562 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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rustythebailiff

95 posts in 1633 days


07-27-2013 01:51 PM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collection hose question

I have a single stage one horse dust collector that has a 4” hose coming directly off that I hook up to my table saw or planer as I need it. The hose is one of the telescoping ones from Rockler, with a max length of 12’ and a min of 3’. I would like to hook it up to some smaller tools, a router table, ROS sander, etc, using smaller diameter hoses.

My question is, is it better to use adapters at the end of the 4” hose already mounted to the collector to attach the smaller diameter hoses (2 1/2” or 1 1/2”), or remove the 4” hose and attach the smaller hose/adapters right at the machine? I’m not sure what effect going from 4 inch to 2 1/2 inch or smaller hose would have on the suction power.

-- "Necessity is the mother of invention"


16 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4482 posts in 2185 days


#1 posted 07-27-2013 03:01 PM

It’s likely to not work very well regardless of how you hook it up. DC’s are not shop vacs, they are pretty much the opposite. A DC moves a much larger volume of air at a lower static pressure (measurement of drag on the air flow). That drag increases as you choke down the flow, and the result is much less air flow. A shop vac, which is what you really need, is designed to move smaller volumes of air at much static pressures….so they pull air through the smaller hoses much better.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

3097 posts in 1978 days


#2 posted 07-27-2013 03:36 PM

It’s great to have a 6” diameter when the chips fly off a planer, but matching the size of your dust ports is usually the best you can do. Anything along the path that restricts the flow makes that pipe effectively the same diameter as the restriction. So if you have 4” ports, a 6” hose is not of much benefit, some, not much.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View OhioMike's profile

OhioMike

79 posts in 1854 days


#3 posted 07-27-2013 04:01 PM

I tried that route with my lunchbox planer and the results were terrible.

My D.C. is 1.5 HP and I have 6 inch PVC run to the tools. But my planer had a 2.5 inch port.

So I stepped down from 6” to 4” at the blast gate and stepped down again from 4” to 2.5” at the tool. You can see in the pic how much saw dust didn’t get sucked up.

I built a new hood for the planer that has a 6” connection and now it works great.

Dust collectors just don’t do very well when the hose is smaller than 4”.

For all the tools that I couldn’t enlarge the dust port, I built this.

It works great.

Mike

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4482 posts in 2185 days


#4 posted 07-27-2013 05:00 PM

Mike brings out an important point….just because the tool companies want to saddle you with an inadequate dust port doesn’t mean your stuck with it. Cut, hack, replace, whatever is necessary to get the largest your DC can use. I have one tool that I couldn’t upsize the port because of an insanely poor engineering job…all the others have modified ports.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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rustythebailiff

95 posts in 1633 days


#5 posted 07-27-2013 08:22 PM

Ok, I understand now. I have a small port shop vac that I can hook up to the hand tools then. It will actually be a little easier to use as the hose from the DC weighs a ton.

Thanks for all the great info, I know now which direction to move

-- "Necessity is the mother of invention"

View RichmanNot's profile

RichmanNot

39 posts in 203 days


#6 posted 01-30-2017 04:02 AM

Well… this discussion is helpful (to a degree-LOL) I have a HF 2 HP Dust collector, and the Oneida Super Dust Deputy -with the 5 inch inlet! I am about at the point of getting it all ready to connect to my table saw.

For whatever reason Oneida made it nearly impossible to find anything that will connect to the inlet port on the Dust Deputy (should be called the Dust Demon?). Not even sure the 5 inch hoses will go onto that inlet on the Deputy?

They have a sheet metal adapter which they claim is the only one that will slip onto the inlet of the Deputy, but it is a reducer collar and reduces the 5 inch down to a 4 inch, which I can only assume will allow a regular 4 inch PVC dust collection hose to fit onto that reducer?

THE ISSUE AND THE QUESTIONS I HAVE ARE >>>> There are ZERO and I mean ZERO machine PORTS that are 5 inch. I would love to find a plastic (ABS) 5 inch machine port to install in the side of my CABINET table saw at the floor level of the saw —- BUT, it seems NOBODY has any of them?

Question: Would I be better off to use 5 inch flexible hose from the saw to the Dust Deputy? Or use a 4 inch hose? In reality, how much would I be losing in way of air movement if the hose was 4 inch verses 5 inch (in about 6-10 feet of hose run) ??

I could use a 4 inch plastic machine port then use an adapter from 4 inch to 5 inch and run 5 inch hose, or the other way around and use the 5 to 4 inch at the dust deputy and use a 4 inch hose 6 to 10 feet.

WHAT ARE THE OPINIONS HERE???

-- "can't died in the poor house" (Because he always went around saying... "I can't")

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

444 posts in 508 days


#7 posted 01-30-2017 04:19 AM

I have experienced exactly the same thing. I just don’t understand the undeserved reputation reputation of a company that sells adapters they claim are specifically made for their SDD that don’t fit either inside or outside the inlet or outlet. I had better luck buying stuff at Home Depot and using a few hundred feet of Gorilla tape to get the thing sealed up. I bought a 5” to 4” adapter at HD which was exactly the same as the Oneida adapter in every way except it was a little less than half the price.

View RichmanNot's profile

RichmanNot

39 posts in 203 days


#8 posted 01-30-2017 04:23 AM

Yeah it is frustrating! My main question is should I use a 5” hose from the saw or just give in and use a 4 inch?


I have experienced exactly the same thing. I just don t understand the undeserved reputation reputation of a company that sells adapters they claim are specifically made for their SDD that don t fit either inside or outside the inlet or outlet. I had better luck buying stuff at Home Depot and using a few hundred feet of Gorilla tape to get the thing sealed up. I bought a 5” to 4” adapter at HD which was exactly the same as the Oneida adapter in every way except it was a little less than half the price.

- ArtMann


-- "can't died in the poor house" (Because he always went around saying... "I can't")

View RichmanNot's profile

RichmanNot

39 posts in 203 days


#9 posted 01-30-2017 05:21 AM

OK I did FIND a 5 inch machine port – Seems the Delta Unisaws have a 5 inch plastic dust port! And the parts are available from Delta. Going to give them a call tomorrow?


Yeah it is frustrating! My main question is should I use a 5” hose from the saw or just give in and use a 4 inch?

I have experienced exactly the same thing. I just don t understand the undeserved reputation reputation of a company that sells adapters they claim are specifically made for their SDD that don’t fit either inside or outside the inlet or outlet. I had better luck buying stuff at Home Depot and using a few hundred feet of Gorilla tape to get the thing sealed up. I bought a 5” to 4” adapter at HD which was exactly the same as the Oneida adapter in every way except it was a little less than half the price.

- ArtMann

- RichmanNot


-- "can't died in the poor house" (Because he always went around saying... "I can't")

View RichmanNot's profile

RichmanNot

39 posts in 203 days


#10 posted 01-30-2017 05:34 AM



Well… this discussion is helpful (to a degree-LOL) I have a HF 2 HP Dust collector, and the Oneida Super Dust Deputy -with the 5 inch inlet! I am about at the point of getting it all ready to connect to my table saw.

For whatever reason Oneida made it nearly impossible to find anything that will connect to the inlet port on the Dust Deputy (should be called the Dust Demon?). Not even sure the 5 inch hoses will go onto that inlet on the Deputy?

They have a sheet metal adapter which they claim is the only one that will slip onto the inlet of the Deputy, but it is a reducer collar and reduces the 5 inch down to a 4 inch, which I can only assume will allow a regular 4 inch PVC dust collection hose to fit onto that reducer?

THE ISSUE AND THE QUESTIONS I HAVE ARE >>>> There are ZERO and I mean ZERO machine PORTS that are 5 inch. I would love to find a plastic (ABS) 5 inch machine port to install in the side of my CABINET table saw at the floor level of the saw —- BUT, it seems NOBODY has any of them?

I STAND CORRECTED! OK I did FIND a 5 inch machine port – Seems the Delta Unisaws have a 5 inch plastic dust port! And the parts are available from Delta. Going to give them a call tomorrow?

Question: Would I be better off to use 5 inch flexible hose from the saw to the Dust Deputy? Or use a 4 inch hose? In reality, how much would I be losing in way of air movement if the hose was 4 inch verses 5 inch (in about 6-10 feet of hose run) ??

I could use a 4 inch plastic machine port then use an adapter from 4 inch to 5 inch and run 5 inch hose, or the other way around and use the 5 to 4 inch at the dust deputy and use a 4 inch hose 6 to 10 feet.

WHAT ARE THE OPINIONS HERE???

- RichmanNot


-- "can't died in the poor house" (Because he always went around saying... "I can't")

View daddy2kids's profile

daddy2kids

2 posts in 180 days


#11 posted 01-30-2017 12:52 PM

Hello everyone.
I need a good dust collector. Any ideas which one to get?
I want to buy one but I’m confused with all the information I’m reading on reviews.
Can anyone tell me which one is good to buy in this review?
Good dust collectors
Thanks.

View rustythebailiff's profile

rustythebailiff

95 posts in 1633 days


#12 posted 01-30-2017 01:58 PM

RichmanNot, I have learned a lot about DC since my early days. In reference to your question about 5 vs 4 inch hose;the 4 inch will do everything you need, and is pretty much the standard for small shops. I’m not sure why Oneida went with a 5 inch inlet on the Dust Deputy, it does seem weird but I’m sure they had a reason. As for the fittings not “fitting”, I’ve noticed over the last couple of years that that is pretty common. There seems to be no standardization with regards to dust fittings, and many machines seem to be over/under sized just enough for the store bought fittings to not fit without tweaking. I would stick with the 5 to 4 inch adapter and use 4 inch beyond that, as the number of available fittings is greater when you need to expand. Try Woodcraft or Rockler for fittings, they have a good assortment, and try to actually see/touch them before you buy if possible.

As for the table saw, since most only require about 350 cfm to move their dust, 4 inch hose is just fine. Just remember to design your shop layout so the machines requiring the most air movement are closest to the DC, and use flex hose as little as possible since the ridges slow down air movement…short runs only unless you plan to use just one length of hose and attach it to the particular machine you are using.

-- "Necessity is the mother of invention"

View rustythebailiff's profile

rustythebailiff

95 posts in 1633 days


#13 posted 01-30-2017 02:08 PM

daddy2kids, that’s a really loaded question. Looking at the review, they talked about everything from bottom line to top shelf dust collectors. What you need, ultimately, is the DC that will do the job based on your needs. To me the criteria are:

1. Shop size – how far does the dust have to travel
2. Number and type of machines in the shop – different machines have different removal needs

For instance, a table saw requires 350 cfm to move the debris it puts out, but a jointer needs as much as 450, and a 15 inch planer needs a whopping 900!

As for shop size, if you are moving air across a 30 foot shop, you need more cfm to compensate for velocity loss over the distance. Then throw in variables like flex hose, elbows, blast gates and such, which can also slow down your air movement, and the question becomes a bit more complicated.

Can you expound a bit on your requirements?

-- "Necessity is the mother of invention"

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

389 posts in 187 days


#14 posted 01-30-2017 02:42 PM

DC design is a very complex subject. These guys have done a good job of boiling it down in their design guide:

http://www.airhand.com/designing/

bottom line is that each system is unique and there are a lot of variables to consider including layout, the equipment you are collecting dust from, length of piping runs and number of pipe bends, etc.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View Redoak49's profile (online now)

Redoak49

2567 posts in 1680 days


#15 posted 01-30-2017 03:37 PM

The link that TungOil posted is a good one and info similar to the Pentz website.

Daddy2kids… there is really no shortcut to figuring out which dust collector.

You can invest the time and read as many posts as possible and things like the Bill Pentz website.

Or you can take a guess and buy one and hope you are lucky.

Besides equipment and shop layout, one of the biggest factors is money.

Just a caution for you. Some brands do a reasonable job in testing their machines while other are just not correct.

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