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Powermatic PM1000 - Thoughts on this new Hybrid

22K views 57 replies 21 participants last post by  knotscott 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I got an email from Popular Woodworking today announcing the upcoming Powermatic PM1000. From the limited info I could read about on their website, it looks like they took the a PM2000 and replaced the motor with a 1.75HP motor, possibly putting it in a similar position as the Sawstop 1.75 table saw. I'm curious to hear more thoughts from the LJ community.
 
#4 ·
I'm pretty impressed. It's 9in the running for my final table saw upgrade now, between that, the steel city 15950 and the 1.75HP sawstop.

toolie, I'd go for a grizzly if they had a cabinet saw with 1.75HP, or even a hybrid with cabinet mounted trunnions. There's also the warranty difference, but still expensive for what it is.
 
#6 ·
Last PM I used was a 7 1/2hp, 3 phase, 480 volt, 12" green monster I purchased for the pattern shop back in 1979. It is still the standard against which I compare anything new. Nothing new comes close however.

Really depresses me the way we have forsaken quality in the pursuit of cheap.
 
#7 ·
Got the same from Powermatic. The only difference I see is the 1.75 hp motor which can be wired for 220v. Must be a brainchild of marketing. PM is more expensive than many brands and in my opinion is (or historically always has been) well worth the difference. My TS is a PM Model 66 that I bought in 1994. I checked it with a Wixey this past winter and it was dead on just as I adjusted it back in 1994, with the stops dead on at both 90 degrees and 45 degrees. My 8" jointer that I acquired in 1996 is like wise dead on and level the full 72 inches. Unless you've had an opportunity to use a PM versus other brands, it is almost impossible to convince someone that is a Grizzly fan of the difference.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
It looks like a scaled back PM2000. If it has the same guts as a PM2000, it'd be a heck of a saw. However @ $2K, it's also a heck of an expensive saw for a 1-3/4hp Asian import. If I were considering this saw due to 110v restrictions, I'd give serious consideration to the Saw Stop PCS 1.75hp instead….for a few hundred bucks more, you get well proven well built saw that has a dramatic safety feature that the PM1000 doesn't have. Or… I'd give serious consideration to paying to have 220v installed, and go with a Griz G1023RL or G0690.
 
#11 ·
First let me say I am a PM guy all the way. 66, Drill press, Jointer, Band Saw, and bench top Mortiser.

The new hybrid looked good to me until I read the specs. The impression is that since the saw will run on 110v the user can plug it into any outlet. Most guys I know have 20 amp outlets in their shop. The specs recommend a 30 amp circuit. So as I understand it 12ga wire is not heavy enough to carry 30 amps, so only switching out the breaker won't get it. I don't know about you guys but I don't, and don't know of anyone, who has 30 amp runs. 10ga wire? If you have to run a new feed you might as well make it a 220 circuit. The saw in question can be wired 110 or 220.

Hey you electricians - am I right or wrong?
 
#12 ·
The saw in question can be wired 110 or 220.

and the motor ratings are 15A at 7.5A and 110v at 220v (according to PM's web site). there seems to be a disconnect between the motor ratings and the recommended circuit size, 30A for 110v and 20A for 220v. assuming the motor rating is it's FLA rating, the recommended wire size is overkill. yes, motor amperage spikes quite a bit at start up , but most circuit breakers are rated to accommodate that. i see no reason for the recommended circuit sizes. based on the motor ratings, that saw, configured for 220v, should operate on a 15A 220v circuit without incident (using 14 gauge wire) or, if configured for 110v operation, a 20A 110v circuit (using 12 gauge wire) should be sufficient.

when i had a 3 hp unisaw with an OEM dual voltage 3 hp baldor motor, it's motor ratings were 32A at 110v and 16A at 220v. i ran it AND a delta 50-850 (drawing 6A at 220v) on a single 20A 220v circuit (12 gauge wire) without incident and never a tripped breaker.

i agree with a previous poster who suggested the marketing staff should probably contact the techies and get their information straight. but this is an issue that would probably never occur to PM's target market (that target market probably doesn't even know where their electrical panel(s) is/are).
 
#15 ·
Does it have a quick release riving knife? I can't find that info anywhere and haven't broken down to calling PM Tech yet. If it has that I may be sold! It's a nice looking saw with a lot of features at a great price. I worry that it may be a little weak as I'm used to using a 3HP 220 but I never need that much power anyways. Even if it's not a quick release riving knife I'm okay. That is just the clincher for me.
 
#16 ·
Great feedback from everyone on this machine. I will say I am seriously considering upgrading my Rigid saw to this machine. I have researched most of the saws on the market that are mentioned in the articles above. While $2k is a big price tag for a 1 3/4 horse machine, it is a PM. I can clearly see the difference in the machines when you look close at the ads/marketing, and the reviews on You Tube. Now of course the Rockler and
Woodcraft guys only want you to buy a Saw Stop. And talk about price…The 1 3/4 contactor saw is about the same price as the pm 1000 when you add the cast iron wings. And it's a contractor saw. NO SAW STOP FOR ME. I will say the Grizzly saws are the best value out there, and hard to beat on value. However, I have had to learn the hard way that you usually get what you pay for. My first saw a couple of years ago was the Porter Cable portable contractor saw. It's ok for on the job and to move around, but it's not a great saw for furniture or quality cuts on hardwood. I then moved up to the RIGID 4512 because of a great sale at HD. Again, an improvement over the inexpesnive PC, but it is difficult to get good square cuts due to a weak fence system. SO…..my next saw will be my last for some time (I hope). I am going to look for quality/reputation first and price second. I believe it will now be between the Grizzly 3hp or the PM 1000. And remember everyone, the PM 1000 is a much smaller saw. The foot print is exactly the same as my rigid. The PM1000 weighs 350LBS, the PM2000 weighs 550 lbs. Good feedback everyone. I will post when I move to my Grizz or PM.
 
#17 ·
While $2k is a big price tag for a 1 3/4 horse machine, it is a PM.

do you really think the PMs built today in either china or taiwan bear ANY resemblance to the tools under that brand 30 years ago? as Knotscott has demonstrated, i believe, in comparing a grizzly TS with a laguna and a baileigh with a laguna, tha the primary differences in a lot of the saws coming into the us market today are machine color and price. for LESS than the price of a PM 1000, a grizzly 691 or 1023 can be delivered to your door. why buy a hybrid when a BETTER saw will cost less. stay away from the PM 1000 and make a smart economic decision wile getting a top flight TS from the likes of grizzly. in the case of th ecurrent offerrings from powermatic, one does not, IMHO, get what they pay for.
 
#20 ·
The quality of the table saw still depends on the person using the saw and what he expects. I love my 5hp unisaw and would not trade it for any saw on the market. I do not really like the 1.75 pcs sawstop I use at school but there several people who would swear by the quality of the saw. So it depends on a personal choice. Get the saw you feel would be best.
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
Powermatic does have some really nice tools, but they each need to be evaluated on their own merit, and PM is not immune to profiting on their reputation, and putting fancier doo-dads on the same tools that others sell for less. I'm more of a brand realist than a brand loyalist. The fact that the name plate says "Powermatic" means little to me….honestly, I'd see it as having an advantage in resale value because so many think it means a better tool, but that's about it.

This is certainly a different saw than the one you're considering, but it's an example that proves my point. AFAIK, all of the following saws roll out of the same factory. The name plate, and anything the attaches to the castings is subject to change (fence, swithces, motors, etc.), but the castings and designs are the same. The price, retail circumstancs, and warranties also differed. They're available under than brand names of PM, Jet, Grizzly, Ohio Forge, AFF, Omega, Mao Shan, and others. In this case, the PM did have a Vega or good Vega clone fence and grated cast wings going for it….the fence adds value, the wings some, but the PM nameplate doesn't add much IMO.

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#22 ·
I would look closely at the PM vs Sawstop. I just quickly looked at the specs on both and the Sawstop weighs at least 50lbs. more. I'm curious as to where the extra pounds are or are not. The Sawstop is about $300.00 more but it has a great safety feature. The Sawstop can be a little more trouble to use because of the safety mechanism but it doesn't take long to get used to.
Mike
 
#25 ·
Hi everyone. We all have opinions of what the best product is. The fact of the matter is the best product is different for each of us base on; size of shop (and footprint needed), budget, how much we use the tool, and our perception of value. At this point we can only communicate what the advertising says because we don't have a lot of hands on experience with the new PM. As for made in China, I don't believe there is a table saw made in the US any longer (except maybe the unisaw). That's according the Walter Meier rep at the last wood show. According to him most medium priced models; (Laguna, Grizzley, Shop Fox) are made in China, while the high end and commercial (Jet - Power Matic) are made in Taiwan. I believe that goes for all tools (power nailers, etc). The voltage on the PM 1000 is getting a lot of discussion too. Clearly, they could do a better job of explaining what the 30 amp requirement is. But, my friend is an electrician and he said you can have a 30 amp breaker on a 12 AWG depending on the type of motor. It gets more complicated for someone like me but he said an electrician (or hopefully PM tech support) should be able to explain the motor requirements for the PM 1000. He doubts you need to change to 10 AWG if PM says it will work with 115v. Again, I was looking at the Laguna and Grzzley before the PM. There will be a PM 1000 in my shop as soon as I can sell the Rigid. Then I can give you the good and bad from a real experience perspective. There are a lot of good products out there, and are generally priced accordingly. Enjoy woodworking everyone.
 
#26 ·
But, my friend is an electrician and he said you can have a 30 amp breaker on a 12 AWG depending on the type of motor.

i find that a bit hard to believe. circuit breakers, and even fuses before them, are designed to protect the wire, not the appliance using the current at the end of the wire. and i'm not aware of any way a 30A rated breaker can protect a 20A rated conductor, but i'll review this with one if our electrical engineers tomorrow.
 
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