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York pitch vs. middle pitch

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Forum topic by Loren posted 07-15-2013 05:29 AM 1386 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Loren's profile (online now)

Loren

7822 posts in 2393 days


07-15-2013 05:29 AM

In hand planes standard is 45 degrees. Almost all iron
bench planes have this angle.

A little bit higher is York pitch at 50 degrees. This makes
more of a scraping cut and navigates reversing grain
and figured hardwoods a little more like a scraper
than a standard pitch plane.

Higher still is middle pitch at 55 degrees.

The higher you go, the harder the plane is to push
or pull and the more mass in the plane body helps it
stay in contact with the wood to avoid chatter. Hence
the development of the super-heavy infill planes in
the 19th century for working figured hardwoods.

###

With all this said, as a pragmatic matter in the smoothing
of common “straight grain” hardwoods, tearout
routinely occurs at standard pitch when reversed
grain is encountered, no matter how sharp the iron.

What’s your preferred approach for mitigating tearout
when smooth planing?

-- http://lawoodworking.com


15 replies so far

View ronniebo's profile

ronniebo

86 posts in 1410 days


#1 posted 07-15-2013 05:59 AM

Go to a low angle bevel up plane with tight mouth and plenty of weight.—something like a Marcou!!
R in Hobart

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1378 posts in 928 days


#2 posted 07-15-2013 05:59 AM

Toothing plane followed by scraping—either card scrapers or a scraping plane. It’d be nice to avoid this two-step process, though, and I don’t have a 55 degree bedded smoother yet.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View Jorge G.'s profile

Jorge G.

1526 posts in 1220 days


#3 posted 07-15-2013 03:52 PM

Scraper plane.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

7475 posts in 1428 days


#4 posted 07-15-2013 04:11 PM

Seems I do have a Yorkie in the stable, and use it

Both of these are a #3 size. Note the angle of the irons..

Funny grain in Barn Wood, when I find it, means i have to go along at an angle, or skewed. Then a round-robin to find which way the grain runs. On one plank I had, it turned into end grain in the middle of the board.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View Don W's profile

Don W

15519 posts in 1312 days


#5 posted 07-16-2013 06:04 PM

I usually start with my middle pitch infill. If that doesn’t work its a scraper, probably my #112. In a rare case they don’t work I break out the toothed scraper.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View BigRedKnothead's profile

BigRedKnothead

5785 posts in 727 days


#6 posted 07-16-2013 06:27 PM

I have the same issue with qswo. Imo, Low angle planes are even worse. Tear out city. Unless you want to hone a 50 degree bevel…which I think is silly.
Hate to say, “well ya just gotta buy this”....but I recently got an LN with a 55 degree haf…and it’s the best plane I’ve used on qswo to date. That said, any wood that changes grain direction often, can be a challenge.

-- Red-- "At the end of the day, try and make it beautiful....because the world is full of ugly." Konrad Sauer

View Don W's profile

Don W

15519 posts in 1312 days


#7 posted 07-16-2013 06:29 PM

I have to disagree Red. This one is better.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1378 posts in 928 days


#8 posted 07-16-2013 06:46 PM

Don, those are some thick shavings underneath that infill. Maybe close up the mouth a little and retract the blade?

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View BigRedKnothead's profile

BigRedKnothead

5785 posts in 727 days


#9 posted 07-16-2013 07:05 PM

hehe, I know Don:) I said best plane “I’ve used.” Go ahead and send that one my way for a test run.

-- Red-- "At the end of the day, try and make it beautiful....because the world is full of ugly." Konrad Sauer

View Loren's profile (online now)

Loren

7822 posts in 2393 days


#10 posted 07-16-2013 07:56 PM

What’s the opinion on the role of the chipbreaker in
planes bedded at 55 degrees?

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

185 posts in 2713 days


#11 posted 07-20-2013 01:24 PM

Hi Loren

I’ve been using high cutting angles for many years, somewhere around 60 – 65 degrees. This is a common practice in Australia, where many of the local hardwoods have a high degree of interlocked grain.

There are a number of ways to achieve this: the easiest is to use woodies, such as those from HNT Gordon. See http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20HNT%20Gordon%20Smoother%20and%20Trying%20Plane.html Alternatively, BU planes (either LV or LN) make this very easy. See http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/TheVeritasSmallBUSmoother.html

More recently attention has been brought to the use of the chip breaker in a double iron plane. This has been around for many, many years. The alternatives appear easier, which is a possible reason why the method has been obscured in recent times. I completed some research in this regard, and my results suggest that the closed up chip breaker is akin to adding about 10 – 15 degrees on cutting angle. In other words, a 45 (common) angle Stanley plane will act like a 55 – 60 degree (half pitch) smoother.

Keep in mind that 55 degrees is not high enough for some Aussie hardwoods. Consequently, I have used the chip breaker method on a 55 degree LN to increase its “apparent cutting angle”, and the effect is present with this plane as well. That is, it acted as if it had a higher cutting angle.

Note that BU and BD planes respond differently to high cutting angles. BU planes remain much easier to push than BD planes due to a lower centre of effort. In any event, these high angles are more typical of smoothers, where the cut is quite fine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View Loren's profile (online now)

Loren

7822 posts in 2393 days


#12 posted 07-20-2013 04:11 PM

Thanks.

I am set up for accurate back beveling and currently
conducting tear-out experiments.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Loren's profile (online now)

Loren

7822 posts in 2393 days


#13 posted 07-20-2013 04:35 PM

The issue I have had with setting the chipbreaker (cap iron)
very, very close and closing up the mouth is a tendency
for all but the wispiest of shavings to crumple up and
clog the plane.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

185 posts in 2713 days


#14 posted 07-20-2013 04:41 PM

Loren, you need to open the mouth when using this technique.

For reference, the mouth size is of little help once the pitch gets to about 55 degrees. It becomes progressively less as the pitch increases.

You will know if you have got it right when the shavings become straight rather than curly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View BigRedKnothead's profile

BigRedKnothead

5785 posts in 727 days


#15 posted 07-20-2013 04:42 PM

Loren- Glad you got some help from a better authority;-)

-- Red-- "At the end of the day, try and make it beautiful....because the world is full of ugly." Konrad Sauer

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