Tablesaw quirk question...

There may be a chance that you dulled the teeth just on one side of the blade? Might try a diff blade. I always check fence alignment by just bringing the fence over to the blade & checking the clearance at front an rear of blade. Be sure to spin the blade & find a happy medium in its warp. Doesnt take much misalignment to make a board (especially a thick one) wander. Hope i’ve helped.

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

Check that the splitter is perfectly aligned with the blade, especially if you are using a blade that is different thickness since when you last aligned the splitter. If it is out of alignment it’ll pull the board away from fence or push it very tightly against the fence.

-- RonR, Massachusetts

I have a PM66 and there are two 2 bolts to adjust the splitter. Your’s is likely similar. I had the same problem when the leading edge if the splitter was correctly aligned but the back of the splitter was not coplaner with the blade, so the back to the splitter was twisted out of alignment and pulled the wood away from the fence.

-- RonR, Massachusetts

Carefully cut a piece without the splitter in place to about 2/3 of it’s length.
Flip the piece aound and insert it over the blade from the back side of the saw with the power off.
1.Check the splitter now to see if it binds in the kerf.
2.If the blade is aligned the wood should still touch the fence at the back..

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

That’s all within normal, Bob. The splitter is aligned. The problem persists when I have to remove the splitter for cuts. Then the hardwood drifts from the fence after the cut. I just did a couple more cuts and see the same thing. Double checking the blade/fence alignment, it’s all good. Hrmph! As I stated, this is a new phenomena and it’s ticking me off.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Has Spid-ato Man met his match…..? Will evil Dr. Misalignment win the day….?

......and now a word from our sponsor…..The new Festool Miracle Saw Alignment System is a wonder of modern engineering….........

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

One more question before I give up Tom.
When you cut the wood 2/3 of the way through was the kerf even from one end to the other?
If the wood has movement it should close the kerf or open it as the case presents.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Is it affecting the accuracy of the cut? If not, why mess with it?

Maybe: Video it. Then we can see if it is something you are doing technique wise or not.

If you get your feed hand (right hand for most) too close to the fence and let go of your support hand you the wood can pivot away from the fence. I do this on occasion. Try adjusting your right hand position on the wood.

Does this happen when you use the featherboards etc? If not, it seems it is probably your technique.

You may be doing this already… but try to keep pressure from the lower left corner of the board, diagonal towards the back right end of the stock with your eyes on the fence at all times.

A little video where I am ripping some stock; you can see my pushstick angled towards the fence.

-- -John "Do I have to keep typing a smiley? Just assume it's a joke." www.flickr.com/photos/gizmodyne

tHERE’S A GOOD CHANCE THAT THE MATERIAL YOU’RE CUTTING HAS A SLIGHT CROWN AND IF THE CROWN IS AGAINST THE FENCE THEN THE CUT IS GOING TO DUPLICATE IT. WHEN I NOTICE THAT HAPPENING I TURN THE BOARD OVER TO REMOVE THE CROWN. I BUY WOOD THAT IS EITHER 1 SIDE STRAIT LINE RIPPED OR S2S WHICH HAS BOTH SIDES ROUGH CUT. I USE A LONG STRAIT EDGE TO DETERMINE WHICH SIDE IS CORWNED AND THEN CUT THE CROWN OFF. USING A 4’ LEVEL FOR 4’ MATERIAL WORKS GREAT. FOR LONGER MATERIAL A LONGER LEVEL IS NEEDED. I LIKE THE ALUMINUM I-BEAM LEVELS, AS THEY SEEM TO BE THE TALLEST STRAITEST EDGE I HAVE IN THE SHOP.

-- http://ye-olde-cabinet-shoppe.com/

Hey guys…

I just tested it with a featherboard and it happened a bit again. I always use a jointed edge against the fence. I always double check the jointed edge against my workbench, or tablesaw top. I just checked to make sure the fence isn’t pushing away at the back of the saw table. I usually use a pushstick with a hook and keep it on the fence side of the blade. I push clockwise pressure on it to keep the workpiece along the fence.

I’m going to throw in another WWII blade that’s in the shop and see if I recreate the same thing. I wonder if I warped my blade somehow, though I doubt is. It’s odd for sure. It’s just a 16th or less, but I find my eye catching it and I’m concerned that it may take my attention away from the cut. It’s just with smaller pieces too so I don’t feel like getting one in the gut.

If I hold the piece tight to the fence, it stays tight. There is not blade burning with good feed rate, and if I stop pushing the piece as soon as it stops cutting, so the back of the blade is still spinning against the piece, I get no blade marks…mind you, now that I think about it, if there was an alignment issue with the fence going away from the blade at the back, then I wouldn’t see that anyway…hrmph. I’m stumped.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

If you’ve used your saw for a while, the bearings that support the armature are going to wear down a bit, introducing some play into the shaft and the blade.

When you push your wood against the blade, that’s going to force it either back or down or a combination of the 2. That would result in the flat part of the blade acting as something that would force the wood away from the fence, because it would be at an angle to the wood instead of parallel.

This might show up with hardwood more than softwoods because the blade has to work harder to cut the harder wood. This will be tough to check because you probably are talking a thousandth of an inch in wear or less.

It’s just a guess, but I have this happen as well with my plastics when I’ve been using one of the cheap saws for a few years. The blade starts getting really sloppy but by then, the armature’s pretty well worn out, so it’s time to get another one.

-- surplusdealdude

Tom, I am going to assume you know that most fences are set a hair or two loose at the back to help prevent Kickback?

Your next test might be to “mic” both ends of your cut piece to affirm that the problem is just the fence setting or the blade/splitter is involved.
You can just filp the stock end for end and use your sawblade as a guage to find out if the cut has wandered from beginning to end.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Yes, Bob, I’m aware of deliberate play at the back of the fence. Mine is hardly noticeable, but does exist. I’ll do a quick test as you mentioned after supper. It’s really bugging me now. :) My wife says it’s because I want a cabinet saw.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Going to try to borrow my saw? I better turn the computer off….

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

LOL

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Well, I am having the same problem but it started after I changed the blade to a new one. I have checked everything and don’t see anything that should be causing it. The new blade is the same as the last one (I bought 2 at the same time and this one has been setting on the shelf) it is a Dewalt thin kerf blade. Prior to the blade change I think the old Craftsman saw was doing well so I am left to believe that something is wrong with the blade. I think I am going to order a new Forrestt WW II and see if anything changes.

Dan

-- Dan in Central Oklahoma, Able to turn good wood into saw dust in the blink of an eye!

I agree. If all alignment checks out…..theres nothing left but the blade. Have you tried it without using the splitter?

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

I think your wife is right (we always are, you know)

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Miles, yeah, without the splitter is where the problem really shines. I use 2 WWII blades and havn’t tried the second one yet. I went down to the shop to test last night, but forgot why I was going down and ended up resawing some cherry for some boxes. D’OH!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

So the problem is worse without the splitter? I didn’t catch that from the earlier comments. I now only rip with a spiltter, having experienced a few kickbacks that were rather alarming, but in the past when ripping boards I would reach over the blade with my left hand and push the leading edge against the fence if I noticed that happening. It happened maybe 30% of the time. I developed the very bad habit of reaching over the blade! Extremely dangerous and stupid and I know better now (and luckily still have all my digits!). I attributed it to the tension in the wood at the outfeed end moving the board and not enough leverage at the infeed end to keep the board tracking against the fence, even with a push block. With sheet goods my left hand is always at the left edge pushing towards the fence and the problem does not occur as there is no tension released. I always use the splitter now and have it adjusted to keep the rip running against the fence at the outfeed.

-- RonR, Massachusetts

Mot, I have also used Board Buddies instead of a splitter and they work pretty well too without the risk of kickback. They work for ripping boards and sheet goods. I forgot I even had them as they were packed away when I moved and I haven’t dug them out yet. Removing them is easier for me than removing the splitter when I need to cut dadoes so I think I’ll give them a try again. I’ll need to make a new jig to fit over my fence since the jig they are mounted on won’t fit the PM66.

Here’s a link for Board Buddies…
http://www.tools-plus.com/woodstock-w1104.html?utm_medium=shopeng&utm_source=nextag&utm_term=WOOW1104

-- RonR, Massachusetts

I have looked at those, but didn’t know anyone that used them. They look like they should eliminate or minimize this problem. I’d just like to find out why it’s suddenly happening, but the board buddies are a great idea nonetheless.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

ok i had this same problem at one time i tell you what i have first. i run a delta 10in direct drive contractors saw with a delta uni fence. “i hear giggaling 300 doller fence on a 100 doller saw ” any who this problem drove me nuts what it ended up being is the rail was mounted a to low on the table so the rail was kindof levering and lifting the back of the fence. i was able to tightin the bolts to comensat for the levring action without reinstalling the fence. that only worked for a short while i ultmitly had to reinstall the fence cuz the tightning losened up agine. dont know if that helps at all not sure what kind of fence you have

MOT,
You said it doesn’t happen on sheet goods. I think it’s tension in the lumber you are ripping. I had this problem on the last project I made out of mahogany. I never have problems with sheet goods, but raw lumber I would see movement. Now I cut my piece about a 1/4” wider than I need. Then run it through again to final size.

Here’s a test you can try. Take a “raw” board and only rip off about a 1/4” off the width. Do you see movement? If you take that same board and rip it down the middle. What happens? Generally if you rip a small amount off the edge you won’t see movement. If you rip down the middle there is more of a chance to release some tension. At least this is what I’ve seen

-- http://theinquisitivewoodworker.com/

Thanks Mike,

I’m going into the shop in about 5 hours and I’ll test that out. Thanks. Thanks to everyone’s replies. This gives me some things to look at.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

For what it’s worth Tom I will show you a couple of pics from freshly “torn” hardwood to demonstrate how much energy is locked up in some of this stuff.
Here are a few cuts I had made for a segmented project viewed 12 hours after removing them from this board
I purchased the lumber from a reputable vendor who swore that his stuff was pre dried to 8%.

So to add to what others have pointed to, check the log you are working with. Many of them have surprises.

Cheers
Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Thanks, Bob. I suspected this might be the case. I just took a 5” wide piece of oak ply and ripped it with out a hitch. I took a pice of 4/4 maple and it came away from the fence. I ripped it again, this time using a GRRipper holding it tight to the fence and it burnt. I did the same thing with a splitter and was marginally better. I think I’m just over analyzing a wet batch of wood.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Thinking always gets me in trouble!

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

Mystery solved! But it was fun anyways.

-- RonR, Massachusetts

If in fact you are having a problem of wood movement when you saw it. It might be a case of “Case Hardening” Here is a web page that describes the problem. here Search in Google for case hardening lumber you will see lots of references. So It’s not a case of wet wood it could be a case of over dried lumber.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

Mystery is not solved. The only solution is to buy a new saw. Use this one for your dado cuts. And then all of your dreams have come true.

You might be a Lumberjock if your dream shop has two table saws.

-- http://ye-olde-cabinet-shoppe.com/

Testify, brother Obi. Testify! I’ve always wanted a tablesaw up in the garage with a sliding table for knocking down sheet goods. :)

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Bob, that bowl you made is really great!

-- surplusdealdude

I would be checking Craigs list. I still kicking myself for passing the $275 Unisaw.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

A $275 Unisaw? Wayne, say it isn’t so!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

I was going to do some more testing tonight, folks, but I’m tired from a hard day. I’m not going to go fiddle with a quirky bunch of wood on a tablesaw when I’m tired.

Cheers!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Hi Mot

I don’t know if you have seen those two post, I had an excellent results with 1¼” thick Oak.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/281
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/283

niki

It was and I was first call. I have one already, so I passed on it. I should have picked up…

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

Hey Mot, this is a situation that I frequently see on the rough cut lumber I work with. My technique is to get straight edges on both sides first, never removing more than ¼” on any pass. Once the board is straightened, I make the rip to size + 1/8”. The board will normally walk away from the back of the fence on this cut (as I expect it to). I then sweeten the cut on each side one more time by removing 1/16 from each edge.
The reason I actually expect it to move away from the far end of the fence is that my fence is purposely misaligned by .005” along it’s length to allow the wood to clear the back side of the blade during a rip cut, thus eliminating any burns. May not be kosher in some eyes but that’s how it’s done in my shop.

Ed

-- Come on in, the beer is cold and the wood is dry. www.crookedlittletree.com

I use the board buddies, and think they are great. Real easy to adjust, and only seconds to take off.

When you mount them, rotate them clockwise (looking down at the table) about 2 to 5 degrees.
This will force the wood into the fence.

Then put one in front and the other behind the blade.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Gary, I see that your splitter is missing – do the Board Buddies replace the splitter? If so, I assume that you feel they work pretty well. Let me know, I may have to pick up a pair – I hate messing with splitters!

-- Bill - "Suit yourself and let the rest be pleased." http://www.cajunpen.com/

You know, I never use a splitter anymore. It’s still in the box. I found that it, for me at least, was more trouble than it was worth, way back when I got my first contractor saw about 10 years ago.

If there are tensions built up in the wood that would cause it to close up on the blade I will stop the cut and
stick a wedge in the cut before finishing. Usually wood like that can never be straightened so I wouldn’t use it anyway.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.