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Forum topic by HorizontalMike posted 394 days ago 1220 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1517 days


394 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: hinge type door cabinet door cabinet

In the process of building my next project, a Narrow Amish Cabinet, using published plans in a 1995 Rodale book entitled Country Pine I found what appears to be a “hinging” mistake. The first drawing shows the cabinet door with NO ‘rabbet’. You have to look closely at the bottom right to see the door’s edge. More drawings confirm that lack of door rabbet as well.

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Later on, the plans for a 3/8” rabbet on all sides of the door:

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What the plans do NOT tell you/me is how to “hinge” this door to the door frame. It calls for a ‘lift-off Parliament hinge’, but fails to show what or how this hinge is mounted. Pictures and drawings show the finials along the outside of the rabbet. That seems to make it impossible to mount the hinge to the frame without putting the hinge screws at the very outer edge of the frame, just asking for tearout/failure.

I have these old ‘Hoosier’ hinges that give me one wing that is 1/4” longer than the other and am trying to get this to work. The problem is that the 3/8” rabbet seems to be forcing the door even farther proud of the frame and keeping me from mounting both sides of the hinge at the same time. If I get one mounted properly then the other can’t be mounted and vise versa.

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QUESTIONS:
  • How best to ‘fix’ this situation?
  • Is/are there any internal mounted offset hinges out there that are built for this?
  • Do I need to mortise out part of that rabbeted edge, moving the actual hinge into the edge of the proud door?
  • Would it be possible to glue a small block back into the rabbet (just along the hinge area) so that I have enough to have a more secure area to screw to? Don’t know if I would have to mortise the other side of hinge (frame side) deeper or not.

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-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."


14 replies so far

View biglarry's profile

biglarry

75 posts in 1291 days


#1 posted 394 days ago

Mike

I would forget the rabbet and make a flush mounted door. That way you can use the butt hinge or a wrap around hinge with both looking right for the period.

The only way that I know of hinging a door with a rabbet is with a surface hinge but that would not be keeping with the Amish construction technique.

-- "When the going gets tough, switch to power tools." - Red Green

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3051 posts in 1278 days


#2 posted 394 days ago

I believe Biglarry is correct. This hinge and door just doesn’t work does it? Not together I mean.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1517 days


#3 posted 394 days ago

I have already rabbeted the door. You can just make it out on the outer underside of the door. This is an earlier image while still working on it. I thought about going flush, however the 3/8” rabbet all around, makes the door a full 1/2” too narrow and too short if I were to ‘trim” off the the rabbeted area.

It beats the heck out of me, because the plans show TWO of these cabinets, the original and a reproduction, and BOTH have tall parliament hinges and rabbeted doors. The only way I can figure this is the frame must be mortised deeper, and the door hinge area either was not rabbeted or filled with a glued block where the hinge can be screwed to. If not, the hinge screws end up right on the edge of the rabbet with nothing to bite to. Still puzzled…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1517 days


#4 posted 394 days ago

Grandpa, even the Parliament hinge they call for, is nothing more than a glorified higher quality butt hinge. I have been looking for butt hinges with unequal length wings and can find nothing any better than this old Hoosier hinge, and that at least gives me 1/4”. If it were 3/8” I think I would be in like Flint!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1942 posts in 879 days


#5 posted 394 days ago

I have been looking for butt hinges with unequal length wings and can find nothing any better than this old Hoosier hinge, and that at least gives me 1/4”. If it were 3/8” I think I would be in like Flint!

Compare measurements of your Hoosier hinge with this link posted below…maybe Kennedy Hardware has a hinge for you
http://www.kennedyhardware.com/early-hoosier-butt-hinge.html

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1517 days


#6 posted 394 days ago

kdc68: ”...Compare measurements of your Hoosier hinge with this link posted below…maybe Kennedy Hardware has a hinge for you…”

Actually these Hoosier hinges came from Kennedy Hardware. I love that site! It is one of just two websites that I always go to look for accurate reproduction parts. As a matter of fact I have an order from them due to be delivered tomorrow/Monday from KennedyHardware . Ordered more early skeleton key locks, cut nails and hinges. Great stuff!

I also got a couple of their taller butt hinges with finials and will see if they work, but am tending toward using these older Hoosier hinges since they appear (to me at least) to better match the period and Amish style. From what I read in the article/plans, the guy who came upon this original piece, thought that this piece was probably of more recent Amish production, but wasn’t sure.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1942 posts in 879 days


#7 posted 394 days ago

Actually these Hoosier hinges came from Kennedy Hardware. I love that site! It is one of just two websites that I always go to look for accurate reproduction parts.

Agreed…Another place is Horton Brasses…good luck with the hinges…..

http://www.horton-brasses.com/

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 1572 days


#8 posted 394 days ago

This is the only type of hinge I can think of that would suit your application, a butt casement hinge, though obviously not this one which looks cheap and nasty.

Unless it’s offset, a parliament hinge would have to be inset into the frame by the distance of the edge overlap, and the rabbet filled out to the door edge at the hinges as you stated.

If you bought projection hinges you could cut the leaves at unequal widths and rebore/countersink for screws but you’d still have the same issue with the rabbet.

Bit of a headscratcher alright.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1517 days


#9 posted 394 days ago

OK, after searching and searching I have found out what to call what I needed in the way of a hinge.
Geez! it took me forever to up with the correct search term!

They are called 3/8” Inset Hinges.

http://www.homeclick.com/amerock-pk7687m-ae-antique-english-3-8-inset-free-swing-hinge-with-minarets/p-328081.aspx

http://www.pullsdirect.com/amerock-bp7565-pair-of-3-8-inset-self-closing-partial-wrap-hinges/p756002

http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalog-product.php?p_ref=194299

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5136&site=ROCKLER

Been banging my head on this one so much that on this first of two or three Amish Narrow Cabinets, I will probably just use my existing hinges, mortising the frame deeper and filling the door rabbet with a small glued block.

I wonder what was actually available in hinges from ~1850—1900s in order to try and be period specific? Hmm…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1942 posts in 879 days


#10 posted 394 days ago

I wonder what was actually available in hinges from ~1850—1900s in order to try and be period specific? Hmm

Another source for period specific hardware

http://www.houseofantiquehardware.com/site/reproduction/renovators-hardware.html

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

3334 posts in 459 days


#11 posted 394 days ago

I use that style of hinge often and I get them from amazon.com from amerock. I thought you wanted something that hid the hinge.

-- Bill M. I love my job as a firefighter, but nothing gives me the satisfaction of running my hand over a project that I have built and just finished sanding.

View Christophret's profile

Christophret

147 posts in 604 days


#12 posted 394 days ago

Mike, I think your overthinking it.
Whatever happened to shooting from the hip and using gut instincts?

-- I cut it twice and it's still too short!

View tefinn's profile

tefinn

1199 posts in 1040 days


#13 posted 394 days ago

HM – If you go with the 3/8 overlay hinges, they’re readily available at the Orange and Blue big box stores. You may not have as many color/finish choices, but you won’t have to wait on them.

-- Tom Finnigan - Measures? We don't need no stinking measures! - Hmm, maybe thats why my project pieces don't fit.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1517 days


#14 posted 393 days ago

firefighterontheside, yeah, I want the hinge “pin” exposed but the wing mounting hidden.

Christophret, I understand the shootin’ from the hip thing, but I am trying to maintain as much accuracy as I can when ‘trying’ to build older period pieces. The next thing I am going to do with this cabinet is to milk paint it and beat it up, and repeat!... That is where my “gut instinct” comes in… We’ll see how THAT goes. ;-)

tefinn, I already checked my local HD and the selection of any hinges were minimal, and all were pretty much contractor types for full sized house doors and the like. Have not shopped much at Lowes, as the nearest one is ~35miles and not in the same direction as our normal weekly shopping.

Thanks for all the suggestions folks!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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