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Freud glue line blade for Bosch 4100-09 table saw

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Forum topic by vsefcik posted 06-30-2013 05:24 PM 5762 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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vsefcik

11 posts in 1745 days


06-30-2013 05:24 PM

I have a Bosch 4100-09 table saw and I’m considering purchasing a Freud glue line rip blade. The Bosch manual states that the blade kerf width should be .092” or wider and the plate thickness should be .088” or less. The Freud LM75R010 blade has a kerf of .091” (slightly undersize) and plate thickness of .071” (OK). The Freud LM74R010 blade has a kerf of .118” (OK) but the plate thickness is .098” (too thick). So both are slightly out of spec with the Bosch documentation. Has anyone used either of these two blades in a Bosch 4100 table saw? If so, did you have to remove the riving knife (something I really don’t want to do)? If neither will work, do you have a recommendation for another glue line rip blade. Most of my work is with 3/4” cherry and oak. Thanks.

-- vsefcik


20 replies so far

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

4478 posts in 2188 days


#1 posted 06-30-2013 06:37 PM

Can you buy another riving knife for the saw? If so I would shave a little off of the thickness by gently sanding a thou or two off of the thickness of a spare riving knife then you should be able to use the thin kerf blade safely.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2736 posts in 2414 days


#2 posted 06-30-2013 11:34 PM

Kerf is the only thing that matters; not the plate.
If the kerf is the same size or bigger than the riving knife, you should be ok; just adjust the riving knife carefully. I used to use a wooden splitter that was the exact size of the kerf. Never an issue.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

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knotscott

7787 posts in 3212 days


#3 posted 06-30-2013 11:46 PM

There’s going to be a little bit of arbor runout, and likely some blade runout that will add to the overall kerf width of the cut, so as NW said, if the kerf is the same size or bigger than the riving knife, you should be ok if everything is lined up well.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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vsefcik

11 posts in 1745 days


#4 posted 07-01-2013 02:25 PM

Thanks for the replies. I had the belief that the plate thickness shouldn’t be an issue as long as the kerf is wider than the riving knife. I did find two web sites in which people were using a Freud P410 blade on the Bosch 4100 and the P410 blade has a plate thickness of .098”, the same as the Freud LM74R010. So, I’ll give the LM74R010 a try. I do make my own zero clearance inserts and will make another for this new blade.

-- vsefcik

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knotscott

7787 posts in 3212 days


#5 posted 07-01-2013 04:19 PM

You’re correct that the plate thickness shouldn’t matter…it’s the kerf width that’s key. The LM74 is full kerf, which will labor your saw more than the TK. The width difference may only be 1/32” inch, but a full kerf blade is upwards of 33% wider, which adds considerably more resistance to the motor.

Freud's LU86 has a kerf of 0.094” and will easily rip a glue ready edge in any material that the LM74 or LM75 will handle. It also offers the benefit of decent crosscuts should the need ever arise. There are many other good choices that will also give a glue ready finish in up to 1” material….the Infinity 010-150 Combomax will rip even thicker material with a glue ready edge and has a kerf 0.097”. The Irwin Marples 40T ATB or 50T ATB/R blade have a kerf of 0.098”, and will also rip easily to over 1.5” with a glue ready edge.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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rockus

3 posts in 297 days


#6 posted 02-20-2017 05:40 PM

I’m fairly new to woodworking. I have been a quiet reader here for some time. I definitely have gained a ton of knowledge from this site, but I signed up just to post on this thread because I was concerned about the advice posted by several different people about the plate size not mattering. I found this thread because I, too, am looking for a better-than-stock blade for my Bosch 4100 and am having some trouble with the kerf and plate thickness requirements. I know the thread is pretty old, but if I found it, someone else will too.

It is true that only the kerf thickness is important for the blade to function with the riving knife on the saw, but if the plate is too thick, the riving knife becomes useless. The riving knife’s job is to keep the cut wood from coming in contact with the back, upward moving part of the blade plate. The only way the riving knife does what it is made to do is if it is thicker than the plate of the saw blade. If the plate is thicker than the riving knife, then cut pieces are just as likely to be kicked back as they would be with no riving knife at all. That’s why the Bosch manual gives the maximum blade plate width and makes very clear that it should be adhered to.

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knotscott

7787 posts in 3212 days


#7 posted 02-20-2017 05:53 PM

As far as a correlation to the riving knife, the body doesn’t cut anything…it just holds the teeth in place, so as long as the body is stiff enough to support the teeth without significant wobble, there’s little the body (plate thickness) contributes to the overall kerf width of the cut. The teeth do the cutting, so tooth width determines the actual width of the cut, and should always be wider than the body. Tooth width is the key element that determines whether or not the riving knife will pass through the kerf that the blade creates. It’s important that the tooth width (generally known as the kerf of the blade) is wider than the riving knife.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Krajnik's profile

Krajnik

1 post in 209 days


#8 posted 05-19-2017 07:21 PM

Rockus has it correct. The plate thickness DOES matter with respect to the riving knife. The riving knife is there to prevent the wood from binding on the blade, and binding on the body of the blade is what causes issues. When the wood is warped and starts to pinch inward, the teeth of the blade easily cut through it (that’s what they’re designed to do). It’s when the wood pinches further and contacts the plate of the blade that the saw actually binds up.

This is why the Bosch manual indicates that the teeth should be wider than the riving knife (so the knife fits into the kerf), and the plate should be narrower than the knife (so that the wood grabs the knife, and never contacts the body of the blade. If the body of the blade is thicker than the knife, the knife will not prevent blade binding.

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runswithscissors

2562 posts in 1862 days


#9 posted 05-20-2017 03:05 AM

I’m with Knotscott on this one. It is impossible to predict how wood will move, or how much, . No matter how thin the blade plate, hypothetically it would be possible for the wood to close up on it.

In any case, if you have a riving knife or properly functioning splitter, it ain’t going to happen. The wood will pinch on the RK, not on the blade’s plate. That happened to me when I first installed my new riving knife. So I shut her down and backed out. What you have raised is really a non-issue.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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rockus

3 posts in 297 days


#10 posted 05-24-2017 09:18 PM

Sorry runswithscissors, but by your logic, a riving knife would serve its purpose using a blade twice as thick as the knife. That just doesn’t make sense. Someone may take your advice and end up getting hurt. Irresponsible.

As for me, I’ll go with the advice of the engineers that made my saw over a “ain’t going to happen” from an anonymous forum poster. I suggest anyone else that reads this thread do the same.

View ramatsu's profile

ramatsu

8 posts in 12 days


#11 posted 12-02-2017 10:40 PM

Did you ever try the thin kerf Freud in the 4100? I ‘m tempted by the suggestion to just remove a few thousandths from the stock rising knife to make it less than the .091” kerf. Kind of reluctant to remove the smooth finish on the river though.

Given the benefits of thin kerf blades with lighter motors like the 4100’s, I’m surprised Bosch doesn’t set it up with a little thinner knife to start with.

Any other similar blades that you’ve found that fit the 4100’s requirements?

-- - Allen

View BurtC's profile

BurtC

103 posts in 2967 days


#12 posted 12-03-2017 12:16 AM

I have a Bosch 4100-09 too and been using a WW-II on it for about 5 years. Great blade.

View ramatsu's profile

ramatsu

8 posts in 12 days


#13 posted 12-03-2017 01:22 AM

@burtC: is that one of their 3/32” thin kerf blades? At .09375 that’s plenty of margin for error over the Freud’s .091. I’m a little shy about spending 2x as much for the ww-ii though, especially since I’m given to understand that thin kerfs can’t be sharpened as many times as a standard one. 9or need it more often.)

Is there a case to be made for the extra spend? Have you sharpened yours? I’m open to it but would need some good rational(izations:) to get me over that Forrest price hump.

-- - Allen

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knotscott

7787 posts in 3212 days


#14 posted 12-03-2017 01:29 PM


@burtC: is that one of their 3/32” thin kerf blades? At .09375 that’s plenty of margin for error over the Freud’s .091. I’m a little shy about spending 2x as much for the ww-ii though, especially since I’m given to understand that thin kerfs can’t be sharpened as many times as a standard one. 9or need it more often.)

Is there a case to be made for the extra spend? Have you sharpened yours? I’m open to it but would need some good rational(izations:) to get me over that Forrest price hump.

- ramatsu

How many times a blade can be sharpened is independent of kerf width….it’s directly dependent on carbide thickness, and how much gets taken off during each sharpening. Since there’s less mass on a TK blade, they don’t dissipate heat as well as a full kerf blade, so depending on how it’s used, it’s entirely possible that a TK blade won’t hold an edge as well as a FK blade, so could need to sharpened more often….but again, it’s very dependent on several other variables. Keep them clean and don’t overheat them, and they can hold an edge for a good long time.

With that said, I don’t usually support the notion of spending $120+ on a blade that compromises both thick ripping and find crosscutting. You can get several alternatives for quite a bit less that will give a glue ready edge right off the saw. It’s also very possible to buy a task specific crosscut blade and a rip blade for close to the same price that will both eclipse the performance of a 40T blade in their respective tasks.

Here’s a few quick alternatives:
Infinity 010-060
CMT 205.060.10
Infinity 010-150
Ridge Carbide TS21040TK
Freud LU83
Freud LU86
CMT 214.040.10
CMT ITK 250.024.10
Infinity 010-124

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ccc118

1 post in 11 days


#15 posted 12-03-2017 02:09 PM

After realizing that the Freud thin kerf blades are thinner than riving knife specs, I ended up trying one of the Diablo 50 tooth combination blades, which has a kerf thickness of .098”. It’s been giving me a decent cut quality and is much cheaper. Even with this thickness, you have to get the riving knife perfectly aligned, and the blade clears it, but just barely. You really have to get it exactly spot on, which is a bit of a pain. I wouldn’t recommend going any thinner. I also don’t really think it’s worth altering the thickness of the riving knife.

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