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Forum topic by Vodo posted 06-29-2013 01:28 AM 589 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Vodo

18 posts in 755 days


06-29-2013 01:28 AM

Topic tags/keywords: greene and greene finishing maple oak question

My friend has a lot of liquor in her basement. Said liquor is in a lot of bottles just sitting on her counter.

That guy in the foreground is Guillermo. The Gator. Long story.

These two pictures kind of show what color her counter tops are:

And, for fun, you can look through the pictures and name all of the liquor in all the bottles.

When I went to visit her (Missoula, Montana) we picked out some quarter-sawn oak and some hard maple for me to make a bar riser/stepped shelf unit for her. Went to http://www.superior-hardwoods.com/ Superior Hardwoods and Millwork in Missoula. Not a huge stock, but good selection.

I’m making 2. 1 with 2 steps, long and 1 with 3 steps, shorter. I am at the point with the 2 stepper that I need to start thinking about finishing it. Here is where I am at. I just need now to sand all the corner parts, add the dowel accents, then join and finish.

I want to kind of dye the wood, since right now it’s kind of plain, and I want to bring out the grain.

I have purchased these as options:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DSZ792/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0037MEJ5K/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DSZ4MM/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am going to add a few drops of whatever to this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DT6TFC/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and sand and then finish with this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DT3UDG/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here is the point I’m at:

Right now, I’m thinking of making the maple shelves just a liiiitttttle bit yellowish with the honey amber, and then the faces of the oak a light brownish. Maybe even go dark brown, sand it down so that only the end-grain patterns still have pigment, and then go over it all again with the light brown, sand, and then seal.

Anyone have any opinions?

Better question: What are your opinions? I didn’t come here because you guys don’t have any opinions. :) Thanks!

-- AKA vodo. I belong in a blue state.


11 replies so far

View redSLED's profile

redSLED

687 posts in 646 days


#1 posted 06-29-2013 03:53 PM

I applaude your methodical liquor storage planning.

However, is it not more pleasurable to view, and faster to grab any bottle one wishes to, as they are “organized” now? And more importantly, you’ll be messing with Guillermo’s space – maybe you shouldn’t go there.

Hope your lady ‘friend’ is ‘paying’ you for all your hard work.

Kidding aside, I look forward to some other forthcoming opinions on storing those bottles attractively.

Love the quarter-sawn oak pieces, BTW.

-- Perfection is the difference between too much and not enough.

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

1246 posts in 888 days


#2 posted 06-29-2013 04:30 PM

Looks like used contrasting color woods for liquor storage that does not match front of bar.

Have you thought about just using sealer & general wipe on and calling it quits? Sealer going to impart light hue, and top coat will allow grain/figure to show nicely.

-- Bill

View Finisherman's profile

Finisherman

210 posts in 603 days


#3 posted 06-29-2013 05:31 PM

I think that the finishing schedule that you propose for this project should work just fine. If spraying is an option, then I would suggest spraying on your shellac sealer, tinted or otherwise. I once made the mistake of trying to brush shellac over an NGR dye. The dye bled and left me with a mess to clean up, as I should have realized would happen beforehand. Oops! Spraying also makes it easier to get even coverage. Also, if spraying is an option, you might consider using a pre- or post-catalyzed lacquer for the maximum level of protection against the alcohol.

View redSLED's profile

redSLED

687 posts in 646 days


#4 posted 06-29-2013 05:49 PM

Polyurethane or water-based poly is more durable against alcohol than catalyzed lacquer. Spraying lacquer is best for clearest finish and fastest drying time (benefit to finisher), but less so for most durable protection (benefit to customer), IMO. Finish her bar in lacquer and you’ll be back in less than 6 months to fix up lacquer clouding and blotching caused by spills – it’s a bar! Consider the bar to have the same durability needs as a dinner table I’d say.

-- Perfection is the difference between too much and not enough.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

2054 posts in 1247 days


#5 posted 06-29-2013 06:09 PM

I think what you want to do will be fine, although I wasn’t sure what you plan for the top coat. Sealing the dye with shellac would be fine….or not (also fine). But I would use a good quality varnish toe finish the whole thing off. As others have mentioned, a spilled bottle could be hard on several other finishes, and the varnish would be the most durable. For me, that varnish would not be a polyurethane (I’d like the look of an alkyd resin varnish much better), but the poly formulas would also do if that’s what you like. I think a waterborne might also work , if liquor was all it had to face. But such shelves may also get cleaned with some strong alkaline cleaners, and that might damage a waterborne.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Finisherman's profile

Finisherman

210 posts in 603 days


#6 posted 06-29-2013 06:33 PM

RedSLED: You’re right. Polyurethane is probably the toughest thing going. However, it is also a pain in the neck to repair if it becomes damaged. You either have to wet sand it to death to get a new coat to adhere, or if the finish becomes badly damaged, you have to strip it and refinish. Waterborne finishes are abrasion resistant, but they’re easily damaged by alcohol, unless they’re cross-linked.

View Vodo's profile

Vodo

18 posts in 755 days


#7 posted 06-29-2013 06:34 PM

I do think I will change what I was going to do for the topcoat, now thinking about possible spills.

I don’t have a sprayer or anything like that. I will probably be wiping things on in light coats.

I should mention this is my 3rd project ever. 1st was a mailbox. 2nd was a shop cabinet. I’m essentially a hobbyist.

-- AKA vodo. I belong in a blue state.

View redSLED's profile

redSLED

687 posts in 646 days


#8 posted 06-29-2013 06:37 PM

^ Agree with Fred on many points. Although I’m not sure why someone would use a strong alkaline cleaner on a custom-made bar to wipe up simple stuff like booze. Most gentle ‘eco’ cleaning liquids will work fine. Or dish soap and water.

-- Perfection is the difference between too much and not enough.

View redSLED's profile

redSLED

687 posts in 646 days


#9 posted 06-29-2013 06:52 PM

I see your points there, Finisherman, but say you have to fix some damaged lacquer area on a (removable) bar shelf – or worse – on a built-in part of the bar. You’d have to bring it back to the shop to respray it, instead of doing the finishing fix right on site to the poly’d piece. Unless you’re suggesting you can scuff sand and use non-catalyzed spray can clear lacquer on site. If there is deep damage to the finish, I think both a poly or catalyzed lacquer would require approximately the same work to fix (lacquer fix back at the shop or more labour fix to poly finish on site). Either way, poly is more durable against spills. I suppose none of this matters if the finisher does not consult with the customer on which finish to use because the finisher will prefer one finish over the other for personal reasons.

-- Perfection is the difference between too much and not enough.

View Finisherman's profile

Finisherman

210 posts in 603 days


#10 posted 06-29-2013 08:22 PM

redSLED:

I see your points. Finishing, like life, is often a question of trade-offs. For example, durability often comes at the price of difficulty where stripping and repair are concerned. Likewise, finishes which are easy to rub out are less scratch resistance. The trick is to find an acceptable compromise. As it turns out, our friend isn’t planning on spraying, so my comments regarding lacquer are moot in this case. I didn’t know that he didn’t have access to a spray gun when I wrote that. Since Vodo is planning to wipe on his finish, a wipe-on poly is probably a good choice. You’re right. The choice of finish is often based on personal preferences. I’d choose spraying over brushing or wiping every time because I’m blessed to own an HVLP system. I also prefer lacquer over varnish. Of course, customer preference normally takes precedence over other considerations. He/she who pays the piper chooses the tune. If the customer wants poly, they get poly.

Cheers!

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

1246 posts in 888 days


#11 posted 06-29-2013 08:30 PM

Scroll down to durability chart and have a look. So many different chemicals can harm a film finish if not wiped up immediately, would look for a finish with high scratch resistance being bottle will be slid off and on shelves. Gloss & semi gloss finishes more scratch resistant.

I would seriously look at a waterborne easy to brush on vice wipe. If money no object General finishes Enduro about as good as they come.
http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/water-base-top-coats-sanding-sealers/enduro-var

Just as good and little less money yet easy to apply is General Finish Arm-A-Seal.
http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/oil-base-top-coats/arm-r-seal-urethane-topcoat

Arm-A-Seal recommended top coat for seal-a-cell. So might want to skip shellac & seal A cell.

I have been using this product bought at Lowes because Do not sell General Finishes in my town and it is inexpensive. They were also out of Minwax Polycrylic.

http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/wood-care/ultimate-polyurethane

One way to keep scratches down is use coasters under bottles, really cheap and will prolong refinishing!

-- Bill

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