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42" x 72" Butcher Block Table Top w/a 18" overhang

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Forum topic by 1thumb posted 06-22-2013 02:22 PM 1666 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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1thumb

78 posts in 877 days


06-22-2013 02:22 PM

Basically a kitchen island. 18 inch overhang is on one side only, the 6 ft siderunning paralell w/slats. Biscuists and kreg screws of course won’t support top overhang. Should I fabricate top then rout a channel beneath and insert/attach steel tubes or predrill slats prior to glue up, insert steel rods, then cover up holes with remaining slats? Anyone done either?


19 replies so far

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1064 posts in 1007 days


#1 posted 06-22-2013 02:45 PM

How THICK?
18 inches is a lot of unsupported projection.

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1thumb

78 posts in 877 days


#2 posted 06-22-2013 02:47 PM

1 and 5/8’s thick and it is a lot.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1064 posts in 1007 days


#3 posted 06-22-2013 06:56 PM

1-5/8 you don’t need biscuits and pocket screws. I mean you can use biscuits for alignment if you want, but you don’t need anything in that joint if it’s a clean, tight joint. I have an 8 ft by 3 and a half foot walnut island to confirm that.
Is the overhang for seating? If yes, you’re probably overdoing it. You can have comfortable bar seating at 12 inches. In fact I’ve done it at less than 8 inches and it still works.

Metal rods: if you take the time to precisely drill for inserting metal rods it will help, BUT, and it’s a BIG but…, if someone gets up from a chair, using the edge of the projecting counter to assist, it’s STILL going to bend. I watched my brother get up from my island this way and it was all I could do to keep from slappin’ the living sh&% out of him.

#1 advice: see if you can reconsider that 18 inch figure and get it down some.

#2 advice: instead of drillling for rods and all that, get yourself some 1/2” thick by about 2 inch wide steel.
You can simply flush mount this to the underside of your counter top OR you can route a channel in the underside of your countertop to accept the steel. I’d flush mount it and keep the counter top full thickness. The length of the metal should be:
the dimension of your overhand minus 2 inches (if you have an 18 inch overhang, 16 inches) PLUS half the depth of the cabinet from which the overhang starts (but not less than 12 inches). You are holding it back 2 inches from the edge. Almost invisible.

So…. if you have 18 inches of overhang, coming off the back of a full 24 inch depth base cabinet, it would be :
(overhang of 18 minus 2) 16 + (half of cabinet depth of 24) 12.

On a 6 ft run I’d use at least 3 of these bars and see if you can get some kind of corble at the ends for additional support. If the corble just doesn’t work for you aesthetically, then use 4 bars.

SLOT the hole at one end of the bar. Attach using a pan head or washer head screw WITH a large washer.

Believe me at 1/2” thick these are still just about invisible and I’ve seen them float granite 16 inches using these stiffeners. A LOT easier than drilling to insert metal rods

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Charlie

1064 posts in 1007 days


#4 posted 06-22-2013 10:16 PM

On the long grain? With 18 inches of it hanging over? I don’t really think it would be that hard. End grain, no worries. That would hold, long grain, it can snap.

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1thumb

78 posts in 877 days


#5 posted 06-22-2013 10:20 PM

Great points Charlie, thank you very much. Just go ahead and slap your brother out of GP.

James, slats are 1 5/8 after ripped, 3/8 + after planing. Weakness exists lenghtwise at glue joints, not in material, if that makes any sense

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1thumb

78 posts in 877 days


#6 posted 06-22-2013 10:41 PM

Overhang with no support. Lean on it to push yourself up from the table as Charlie wrote and somethings going to give

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1thumb

78 posts in 877 days


#7 posted 06-22-2013 10:44 PM

Okay James. Thanks

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1262 posts in 669 days


#8 posted 06-22-2013 10:56 PM

I would use biscuits and pocket screws for alignment and clamping force. and I agree that I would take a lot of force to break a proper 6’ long grain joint with glue, screws, and biscuits. I am not saying its not possible but probably not going to happen at 12”.

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Charlie

1064 posts in 1007 days


#9 posted 06-22-2013 11:15 PM

Who said it has to be the glue joint that fails? I really don’t think it would. Long grain can split though. :)

And yeah, even at an inch and a half or so thick.

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1thumb

78 posts in 877 days


#10 posted 06-22-2013 11:50 PM

I said glue joint and i was wrong, it would be the long grain that would snap rather easily going with the grain. Biscuits and pocket screws were used to join together the 4 ea approx 10 inch wide slabs

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2930 posts in 1964 days


#11 posted 06-24-2013 10:51 PM

In my opinion, 18” is too much of an overhang, no matter how you brace it. I know it won’t snap. The problem is over time, the top will sag just from it’s own weight an items placed on it and leaning on it will accelerate the sag. The steel will also sag. The really only way to support that over hang is to use two legs, one in each corner set back around 4”.

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1thumb

78 posts in 877 days


#12 posted 06-25-2013 12:33 AM

“no matter how you brace it. I know it won’t snap. The problem is over time, the top will sag just from it’s own weight an items placed on it and leaning on it will accelerate the sag. The steel will also sag.”

I think I’d rather it snap then sag and I don’t think it will sag using the steel Charlie suggested.

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1262 posts in 669 days


#13 posted 06-26-2013 08:30 PM

I think if I were to use steel rods I would build the counter then drill for the rods. I would hide the holes with a contrasting plug or an inlay of some sort

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3513 posts in 1534 days


#14 posted 06-26-2013 08:34 PM

Corbels to allow leg room, yet offer additional support?

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View Albe's profile

Albe

181 posts in 731 days


#15 posted 06-26-2013 09:21 PM

I am not the smartest on this but i would tend to agree with James. Some picinic tables run well over 18” between support and they do not seem to sag in the middle and there are usually only treated fir. If you alternate the grain direction and do a good glue up I would think it would be okay. I weigh 250lbs and cant break a 2×4 by walking on it when it is only supported on the ends also I have never been able to break any cutting boards I made using only glue. It seems like over kill to use stell rods and so on but I am by no means a structrual engineer.

-- Pain is temporary, quitting last forever.

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