LumberJocks Woodworking Awards Summer 2007

So when are you going to post the theme or topic for the awards? or have I missed it?

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

Hey Tony.. there are 2 categories now – Garden Project and Wood Joinery – and you can read about them on the Awards overview page

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

Thanks for the information – I will try to support this.

If people do not read this page how do you find the information about the summer Awards – I pressed every menu button and nowhere did I find a link to the awards pages. Is my version of LJ out of date?

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

Hi Martin;
—-great news!!!
I’m really excited about this one and the prizes are coming up tops also!

Now as to which categories I’m going to be looking at, wellllllllll…......I think I’ll just be silent and see what comes forth. Now where did I leave that maple slab at…. and come to think of it, I know it’s time to start looking for branch wood….ah yes, life is good….

Happy journeys and joineries to all workers of wood as we continue to keep those wood chips curling.

And so again I thank you Martin, for your work in making all this possible and for the wonder-full place you have given us to gather here at LumberJocks. Bye the way I received my LJ shirt last week and thanks for the shirt….now I need to get back to writing a blog story….

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

I’m in this one for sure… (I came in a little late for the last one)
-Rick

-- Rick, Michigan, rick.blodgettoil.com

I was just about to post a complaint about the Challenges/Awards…that there weren’t enough of them! LOL…Excellent!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

I’ll fire up the tools for this one too.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

sweet prizes, eh?? !!! WOO HOO

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Very nice plane!

Gosh, can I get away with putting off the stack of projects backed up in the shop to work on this?

-- Paul, Texas

Martin does it again! And look at those nice prizes too. Now, which category to enter….

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

By the way, in case anyone needs an idea for the garden project category, the latest issue of Woodcraft magazine has plans for an Adirondack chair. That could be an easy one to do.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

OK…I’m in this one…. I think I’ll need some more teak….maybe some lypytus too.

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

I smell beech. :)

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

aah nothing like going to the beech on a summer day :) Want to JOINtery the trip?

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I like the time link, Martin.
Looks like the deadline is 4 PM EST for me.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Cool Martin! thanks for putting this together!

-- John

Late for the last challenge, just in time for this one. I will be starting my designing tonight.

-- A man who moves mountains starts one stone at a time.

Wow! Great Prizes and Great Catagories…don’t know if I will be healing in time for this or not. Ran in to a bump in the road. Anyway, Good Luck to all and I can’t wait to see the entries. Based upon the past competitions, I am sure we will see some outstanding projects come out of this one.

-- Greg - Charles Town, WV

I hope your recovery gets better and that “bump” goes away.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Wow look at those prizes… these contests just keep getting bigger and better.

Now that we all have Thorsen Tables on the brain, lets see how easy it is for us to switch gears and make something for the yard, and something only out of wood!

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Let’s do it! Great prizes, too!

By the way, any word on the Thorsen Table Challenge and the free subscription?

-- Jesus is Lord!

I belive the Thorsen Table Challenge is being judged with results due 15 June.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

OK here is the first serious question about the rules.

Wood Joinery - Let’s get technical – but without glues, metal nails, screws or other mechanical fasteners!

DO WOODEN DOWL PINS OR WOODEN SPIKES COUNT AS MECHANICAL FASTENERS?

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

Tony, if it’s not metal and it’s not glue – then it is OK.

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

Thanks Martin – I must go and find those reinforced kevlar pins, I had!!!!!

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

lol hmmmm I think someone wants to test the rules!!! lol

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Hmmm, can’t even glue boards together then!

-- Paul, Texas

don’t start building yet… I think Martin is still contemplating your thoughts on the subject

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

—-many ways to join boards without the use of mechanical fasteners or glues!

Tongue and groove, ship lap and then draw pin or wood peg it….butterfly’s and then what about the sliding dovetail which one runs along the edge of the wood and then slides the next board in place, mortise and tenon and wood peg….just off the top of my head.

After all, wood lives and wood moves….
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

Or you could use some fresh pine, the sap could help act as a natural wood glue.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Frank/Scott.. those ideas are really helpful.
Speaking for myself, I don’t know much (or anything) about joinery so this will help me as I plan what to build and how to do it.

Any more ideas would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thank you , thank you. You made the “no glue” sound do-able.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I wonder if you use superglue as the finish and some of that seeped into the cracks, would that still be OK? LOL

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

I promise I won’t make any more comments, but I think the exclusion of glue should be rethought.

Found this on the Internet:

“Nearly 4,000 years ago, the Egyptians were using hide glue for their furniture adhesive. This is proven by hairs found in Pharaoh’s tombs and by stone carvings depicting the process of gluing different woods. Hide glue is still in use today for wood gluing and over the years much has been written about the manufacture and use of hide glue for hundreds of other adhesive applications. With the evolution of synthetic (ready to use) adhesives, hide glue has taken a lesser role in industry but has maintained a major role in repair and restoration of antique furniture, reproduction of period furniture, restoration, production and repair of musical instruments as well as numerous other applications.
Most of the hide glue literature was written from the mid 1800’s to the mid 1900’s, and unfortunately much of this literature has been lost or abandoned.”

No glue – sure it’s possible – it’s doable – I mentioned the same methods Frank did to join boards in another part of the blog. Yet, I believe Frank makes the point for glue rather than against it. Wood lives and moves! Therefore, whatever we build will try to move and loosen and fall apart on it’s own – no matter how tight our joinery is when we enter the competition. There are only a handful of joinery methods that will last without glue. Others methods might look great during competition month but will result in a piece that looks “rustic” or is a pile of parts in a year or so – especially if there’s any strain of use. Thus, no glue actually limits our realistic options and creativity. Many wood joinery methods are so strong not only because of a strong mechanical bond but because they increase the glue surface area in the joint!

I told Deb that I’m not trying to be a sourpuss or rain on the parade, but I just don’t see the point. “No glue” is not more “traditional” unless you’re shooting for prehistoric traditional. “No glue” doesn’t make it harder or prove skill, it just limits the options. Perhaps what you’re shooting for in the joinery skill competition is really “all-wood-by-hand” joinery vs. metal assisted and/or jigs and machines/power tools joinery?

I’ll shut up now and have fun participating in the best way I can within the rules that are outlined.

-- Paul, Texas

I AM SO EXCITED!!! SCHOOL IS OUT!!! Grades are in!!! THE WOODSHOP IS OPEN!!! This is the GREATEST SATURDAY of the YEAR—-Christmas X’s TEN!!! To wake up and get a weekend without anything to worry about only happens twom months out of the year…

So I am soooo happy—-and where did I go on the first saturday of my new life—-LJ…And now I will have time to learn my new tools (just got a new Shopsmith two weeks ago) and build away…Before the “summer awards” came out I was planning to still do Challenge 1 on my own after watching everyones brilliant work for 3 months…I may still do it…

This challenge is a bit different…since the project choice is soooo wide open…I will have to pick up some super glue—-based on the comments above it looks like the competition is going to get a bit sticky…

cant wait to see some great projects…

matt

-- Matt, Napa, CA...fun is beautiful...just trying to have some fun...

Hi Paul;
—-when you say; “I believe Frank makes the point for glue rather than against it. Wood lives and moves!”....

I believe you have mis-understood what I am saying…..
Yes wood does live and wood does move and in the end, the result of this action will be, that the wood all-ways wins. Therefore what I have learned from this is that by building to allow for that movement from the start, produces much better and more satisfying end results.

GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

The glues we have today are an absolute miracle no doubt, and thank God we have em. I think i understand the challenge to build without it though. Where you would normally use glue to make a flush and flawless joint, you now will be put in a position to accent and even draw attention to a “live” joint or connection. Sounds like an interesting challenge to me. Just pretend youre in a woodshop on a remote island and theres no dang glue to be found!

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

I promised to let it go and have fun.

Considering the wood species and joinery used, my single vote may not go to the prettiest. tightest or most difficult to execute, but to the one that will last without glue.

:)

-- Paul, Texas

Thanks for this great discussion, Paul, Frank and others! Here are my 2 cents ;)

As you know I’ve first started this topic to request the ideas for the summer awards categories. And there you can find the reply made by Frank:

——-

This could fall into two themes for the projects:

1.)—-which would consist of ’Wood Joinery’
a) ‘Wood Joinery’ in the purist sense of the definition means joining the wood without the use of glues, metal nails, metal screws or any type of mechanical fastener.

....and….

2.)—-joining the wood by ’Traditional Methods of Joinery’
a) ‘Traditional Methods of Joinery’ would include the use of glues, nails, screws, mechanical fasteners; or any and all of the above combinations.

——-

So you can see the exact descriptions of both proposed themes by Frank.

Then I decided to add Wood Joinery (not Traditional Methods of Joinery) defined by Frank into our Summer Awards poll where all of you could cast the votes for the favorite categories. Aaaand, maybe surprisingly, Wood Joinery won so it become one of the categories. It was chosen in the democratic poll.

As you can see above the entries in this category should follow this rule: ”joining the wood without the use of glues, metal nails, metal screws or any type of mechanical fastener.”

I know it can be very challenging… but it was chosen by the majority plus we have another category to participate. And we will have different categories in the next Awards ;) So by deciding to participate in this category you’ve actually decided to use pure wood joinery.

As you know from th Winter Awards I have no intention to ban the entries. You will be the judges. And you will also judge how each respective entry follow the rules…

Hope this makes sense ;)

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

well said Martin – and very good points.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Paul, I respect your point of view and how you have verbalized your perspective.
It isn’t always you hear someone speak their mind so AND look forward to participating. Bravo :)

As Frank often says, “it “JUST IS”...

I also have to say that I have enjoyed reading the informative discussion about glue and joinery – so even if I don’t try to build something for the category, I sure have learned lots!!

Thanks everyone for their thoughts and their expertise.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Been doing some research with Mr Google, as Frank calls him. Thought I would share this lead – it looks like our Chinese brothers/sisters might have something to teach me (us) in this joinery challenge! Stuck in the Western box? Think Eastern (Japanese, too)! Many refer to this source:

Chinese furniture : hardwood examples of the Ming and early Qing dynasties
by Robert Hatfield Ellsworth

Too much to buy ($100+ on-line) – only about 5 library copies in the state of Texas according to the internet. I’ll see if I can get it through inter-library loan.

-- Paul, Texas

I was just remembering some Japanese box joints I’ve seen earlier, and I know are linked around LJ somewhere… some really fancy stuff – mind boggling. Some versions of dovetails that look like the tails are on both boards, in lieu of pins, and the pieces slide together diagonally, and once together… that’s it. can’t take em apart – not without the risk, or likelyhood of damage…. I was thinking to look east. Looks like I won’t be the only one in that camp.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

This is going to be fun…...I have about 5 ideas already…..

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

I think Frank posted those links in an earlier post. They were AMAZING and if I remember correctly some of the joints just looked like they interlocked and were just for “eye candy” while the actually interlocking part was much simpler… that’s what I remember of the joints hehehe that was back in my “use screws to put a simple butt joint together” days.

Yup.. this is sure going to be interesting

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

There’s getting to be too much on LJ to keep up with. I’ll have to go find those links!

-- Paul, Texas

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/145

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Deb-

Thanks. I missed that whole discussion somehow.

-- Paul, Texas

Wow! Lots to think about…

-- Ron, Twain Harte, Ca. Portable on site Sawmill Service http://westcoastlands.net/Sawmill.html http://westcoastlands.net/SawBucks2/phpBB3

it’s easy to miss something these days.
Now if only someone could design my project, show me how to do the glueless/screwless joint… and stand beside me while I attempt it all—I’ll do just fine :)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Just pull out the willow Deb and you will be fine, with or without us bystanders….

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

with all the debate on the joiner contest i think i may win garden projects by default!!! yippeeee!!!

-- Matt, Napa, CA...fun is beautiful...just trying to have some fun...

hahahaha. now THAT”s funny!

“what/? there’s a garden category???”

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Debbie… you could try carving some screws out of wood. That would help keep you in your comfort zone without breaking the rules.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Wooden screws that were decorative. Now that’s thinking outside the BOX. Let me get my Beall Wood threading kit out. Time to try it out.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Wasn’t sure if I should mention that, or keep it to myself…. but not having the right tools…. lets see someone else tackle that one!

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

I don’t think I’ll do it for my major entry. But a suplemental entry might be fun.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

screws sound difficult… maybe a nail to start with?? :)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

We have new sponsor – Jim Barry's Woodworkers Workshop.

Jim will donate $100 CDN gift certificate to the hardware/lumber/tool store of choice to each category winner.

Thanks Jim!

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

So If I build a garden project without mechanical fasteners, can I win both categories?

Erik

-- Erik garagewoodworker.blogspot.com

hahah nice try Erik!! lol

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

The answer is yes. You can enter the project into both catagories.

You could also use glue and screws and enter it into the joinery catagory, but then probably no one would vote for it.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Build two Erik, and enter one in each category!

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

Hello to all;
—-just thought that I would pass along a ’helps’ for any that might be wanting to figure those makings of the dovetail out by hand….Dovetail Calculator

....and then if any are wanting to try a….twisted dovetail, well here you go….Twisted Dovetail Calculator

Most of mine are by eye, hand and calculations of what ‘just is’ needed, but then we all want a place to start!
Thank you,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

Hi All, I was wondering if the entries for the summer awards have to have been made this year? I made a deck and pergola last year that I would like to enter. What are the rules on time?
Thanks,
Doug in AZ.

-- If you need craft books - please visit our small business at http://www.wittywife.com

Hey Doug,

there are no time restrictions in the rules since there is no way to validate this.

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

COOL!

-- If you need craft books - please visit our small business at http://www.wittywife.com

I might be a little thick, but I can’t recall seeing how you actually enter your project in this contest. I assume tht its by means of a tag.

-- CanuckDon "I just love small wooden boxes!" http://www.hilsbiblechurch.org/

http://lumberjocks.com/awards/summer_2007

there’s a button for “Submitting Entries”

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Is there going to be some kind of ruling on the Wood Joinery projects? It sure seems like some of them have used glue and/or other kinds of fasteners. Will it be up to the voters to weed them out?

-- http://theinquisitivewoodworker.com/

Mike,

the entries in the Wood Joinery should follow this rule: At least one joint and NO glue or mechanical fasteners used to create the joint(s)

Anyways I have no intention to ban the entries. Each voter can interpret the rules at the time of voting and then decide who followed them and who not.

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

Thanks for the clarification:)

-- http://rjoneswoodworks.com/

I wouldn’t want anyone banned. I guess I was trying to get and understanding of the rules and how this whole process was going to work. I’m working on a small project and I’m not even letting myself edge glue any boards together :).

-- http://theinquisitivewoodworker.com/

Wood only joinery, means wood only, no glue or anything that isn’t wood. But all we need is your say-so that the entry is valid. The word of a lumberjock is good.

The garden project must be made out of garden materials only. Soil, manure, tomatoes… oh, wait. there’s no restrictions there. Nevermind ;)

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Very good Scott. That’s why I’m not in the Garden project.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Sounds like a lot of ”Bull Tweet”, if you ask me, Scott.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

I think the voting will let us know what the rule is—unfortunately we wont know until it is over. Haha.
This will give us more practice at clarifying the rules for next time, before we start building.

Scott.. thanks for the clarification of the Garden project. lol That would be interesting!! :D

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I agree on a rules clarification at contest announcement or early thereafter. If questions are asked.

On the garden project anything goes.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Ooops, I guess I didn’t read the rules about no glue. My only comment is … doesn’t this severely limit the entries in a wood joinery contest??? I thought it was more of a furniture category utilizing joinery skills VS nails and screws. I guess I could have pegged all of the tenons in the blanket chest. Hmmm something to think about I guess.

I will see if I can pull my project.

Hey Steve,

yes it may be limiting, hence challenging.. and that’s good. This category with its exact description provided by Frank was voted up in our poll. Of course, we may have Furniture category in the winter or later ;)

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

No problem I see the point. I reread the description and sure enough it says no glue. I could not find a way to remove my entry. Can you do this for me?

Thanks

ScottB, I can’t seem to find that jewelry box I made entirely out of laminated carrot peelings. Did you CTS it? ;D

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Martin,
I must I had no idea what I could possibly make without glue or fasteners and to be honest I thought you were a little crazy for such a challange but as I sit in traffic everyday I have come up with many ideas:) I just hope I can find the time to put it together:) I am thinking that if I do get a chance to get something together it could possibly be one of the most fun projects I will ever build:) I can’t wait to see what others come up with!

RJ

-- http://rjoneswoodworks.com/

I had a couple ideas for the wood only joinery one… will be a little timeconsuming to make, but pretty easy. (If it would ever STOP RAINING!!!!

Sorry about that box Doug. I was snooping anound and feeling a little peckish. Just kidding. I left it uneaten.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Hello to all;
I’m a little surprised at a point that Don made on his entry into the catagory of ‘Wood Joinery’ and how one might be able to interpret the rules. So I’m asking as to what goes here:

”At least one joint and NO glue or mechanical fasteners used to create the joint(s).” My feeling was that this clarification was so that, any entering into the category of ‘wood joinery’ would be entering a project with-wood joint//joints and not an entry with-no-wood joint//joints. Now it seems as if one might interpret this rule to mean only one ‘wood joint’ with no glue or mechanical fasteners and the others in their project with glue and mechanical fasteners.

The requirements for ‘wood joinery’ might limit some from having the time or knowledge to do some large project when it comes to only ‘wood joinery’, but what of those who have followed the rule and then find that some have ‘loosely interpreted’ according to their own rules. And then I also totally disagree with the statement that Debbie has said in her comment of; ”I think the voting will let us know what the rule is—unfortunately we wont know until it is over. Haha.” I believe there is a time for HaHa and then there is also a time for being ‘according to the rules’....the voting is not what determines what the rule is, as the rule has already been voted on and is already stated. The voting that remains to yet come, after the entries are closed and voting starts, is to determine who has been judged to have the best project in that category they choose to enter.

I for one am an artist and a professional who works in wood and when I enter a contest, I agree to follow the rules of the contest….and now I’m to be told that if I labor to follow those rules of ‘wood joinery’, I’m not really going to know what those rules are, until the the voting determines what those rules are//were! This type of thinking, would make me wonder as to what I am doing entering a contest, where the rules are to be determined after the contest is over….and so once again I’m asking what is going on here?

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

Since I guess this is directed at me, I’d better be the first to respond! :)

My apologies if I offended anyone; it was not (nor is ever) my intention.
I personally don’t really like contests because the interpretation of rules are always skewed and it is so difficult to judge apples and oranges.
I also appreciate that someone puts their heart and soul into an entry and sometimes is “bested” by something that doesn’t even seem to fit the rules as well. And on this thought, I guess my personal bug-a-boo appeared to belittled the efforts being put into this category’s entries. Again, this was not my intention.

The category, I think, is a brilliant one, challenging us to try new things and to become better woodworkers. If someone doesn’t want to participate in the challenge, that is up to them.

What is the category? Wood joinery that doesn’t use glue or mechanical fasteners. To me, this seems clear: show us some creations using wood joinery that doesn’t use glue or mechanical fasteners. But then I’m just a beginner and am limited as to what this can mean. I have to leave the questions/clarification to people with more experience and more skills. And so, I will be learning about this over the next month—and after the voting is complete.

And now, I’ll back out and let the clarifying take place by those with more experience with joinery.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Frank:

I’m with you I thought the rules stated:

Wood Joinery - Let’s get technical – but without glues, metal nails, screws or other mechanical fasteners! Yes, this is the “WOOD JOINERY” challenge for all you LumberJocks out there.

That tells me no glue anywhere, no screws anywhere, so nails anywhere. No other mechanical fasteners. I’m reading that as other mechanical like turnbuckles or metal, plastic parts. If the part is made from wood then OK.

I’m reading that as what the rules are, Not one joint without glue, but, all joints without glue. Not some screws to hold it together. as long as you have one joint that you didn’t glue.

This is technical mate.

“Let’s see what you are made of – or rather what your woodworking project is made of. If you can build it with screws, you can build it without. Pure and Simple: Envision it, build it, enter it. Note that entries in this category should have at least one joint and NO glue or mechanical fasteners should be used to create the joint(s). “

It has to have at least one joint. (Don’t enter a flat board) No glue , no mechanical fasteners period. Screwing one part to another is a joint. Don’t even screw a picture frame holder on the back.

I’m not the rule-maker. But this is what I interpret it to be. If I’m wrong, I like to hear about where I’m wrong. I would also like to read in the projects page how the joints were put together to be held without glue or mechanical fasteners. Lets not have people voting on something because it looks nice, but it doesn’t satisfy the rules that were made for that project to be completed.

We need that courtesy. I’d hate to not be in the running, because something looks good (or great) but it doesn’t follow the rules specified. There will be other contests where items that follow other rules will be accepted.

Martin has stated he doesn’t want to be a judge on saying if it’s valid or not. Then I think we need a LumberJock statement in the project page that states that this item has followed all of the rules and that it contains only wood and finish.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Frank and Karson, I have to agree with both of you. My interpretation was no glue or mechanical fasteners in the construction of the project.

Frank said “The requirements for ‘wood joinery’ might limit some from having the time or knowledge to do some large project when it comes to only ‘wood joinery’…”

I hope I can finish my project in time to enter, if I don’t I will still post it in the projects section. When I visited Mark D. at his home in December, he encouraged me to challenge myself. That is what I am trying to do with this challenge. My wife and I occasionally fix antiques, so really building from scratch is not something I do. A bookcase here and shelf there.

-- Joel Tille

For what it’s worth I’m planning to enter one project into both categories. I don’t think I have much chance of winning with this project given the extraordinary talent here. It’s going to be a simple small bridge made with wood joinery. I plan on “winning” by challenging myself to complete the project while learning something new.

If it was about winning I would probably enter my gate into the garden project since I think it’s one of the nicest things I’ve built that would qualify, and I’d do something else for the wood joinery entry. Speaking of which I find the idea of entering past projects into the contest a little odd. Part of the challenge is to build something in that time period. I know there is no way of knowing when it was built but a little honor goes a long way. The thought of someone entering a project from 2 years ago that took them 6 months to build seems a little out of whack and more than a little unfair.

Personally I’d hate to see someone that followed the rules lose to someone that didn’t. It’s an unfortunate reality of life that we could do without here at LJ.

In the end it’s all of us that will determine the rules. Martin certainly doesn’t need that headache. Hopefully the voters will read the rules and look at the entries and make a reasoned judgement. It should be an interesting social experiment. I think the outcome will certainly come into play in putting together future challenges.

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

The project should be completed during the submission window? I thought a few people asked that question, and the answer was there wasn’t a time frame when the project had to be started and completed. Is that really the spirit of the challenge?

-- http://theinquisitivewoodworker.com/

No, the project does not have to be completed during the submission window. And yes, it is still the spirit of the challenge.

It’s technically impossible to review whether each of the entries was created during the specified time period. So we have no period of this kind in the rules. And why the challenge aspect is important and is mentioned again and again? Because I’m sure that voters – your fellow LumberJocks – will take your personal challenge into account during the voting.

So if you have no time to work on the contest project(s) right now and you have created something that qualifies in the past, feel free to post it and share your personal challenge in the project story.. past challenge can be as interesting as the present challenge. And if you’re still working on your entry go ahead and journal your experience in your blog or in the project story as Don did. The more you share about your entry the more respect you get for completing it.

I’m going to just repeat myself about the wood joinery category… the category description is really clear now so when deciding to submit your entry to this category you should follow it. And the same logic as above applies – tell us in the project story how you followed the category guidelines and your entry will be reviewed with respect. It’s that simple.

The Awards are here for all LumberJocks and this time we had luck to get excellent sponsors. So let’s have fun instead of complicating things too much.

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

Hello to everyone;
—-sorry about not getting back sooner with the follow-ups on my comment….it’s just been a long day.

—-once again thanks to all who responded and as Martin has stated; ”....the category description is really clear now.”

—-also Karson; I’m glad for how you broke the descriptive process down even more….and I am also most happy or will be most happy to tell all about what went into my project just as I always try to do.

When we think of ‘wood joinery’ after all, what we most have spent time on, is wood joints that a lot of the time will never again see the light of day. So if one does not state the joints and the process, how will one ever know what is in that process. Again I will draw attention to Don and how he has shown us what is hidden in that mallet. Reading about this project now has even increased my respect for his wood working skills even more.

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

I agree Frank.

It sits there, or hangs there and its not in pieces and no glue, screws, nails or machanical fasterners were used.
SO it must be OK.

BUT: Tell us, use pencil cad, use Autocad, show how it was build.

But remember ”If its wood, It’s good”

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

I’m going to make something with wood only – and it may also be my garden project. I’m glad we’re all on the same page. Mine will definatley not trip off the metal detector at the airport – and the glue sniffing dogs will have to seek their thrills elsewhere.

I just remembered an old sort of wood-only joinery that the Native Americans used when making their stone axes and similar tools. They would somehow twist the roots of a sapling around a stone, and re-plant it, once the trunk was large enough – years later – they’d chop down/dig up their new tools. While mixed media, I think this would fit the spirit of our challenge – though the deadline wouldn’t allow for it.

Best of luck to all!

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Sorry, I didn’t mean to cause any confusion. My comment on the time frame that the project was built in was my own personal ramblings. I had seen the previous post about submitting already completed projects and while I understood that it’s impossible to verify the time frame it somehow seemed (to me) to go against the nature of the competition. Just me being stupid and rambling.

Martin…you make a good point on the question of the nature of the challenge. When I built my brother’s gate I was sweating bullets I would screw it up. Today, I’d feel pretty confident. One of the things that I have to keep reminding myself about LJ. It’s not just about the wood. The fact that we will take into account the nature of the challenge shows that. Maybe I will enter the gate.

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

“stupid ramblings” help clarify….
no need to apologize. We should be thanking you! Now everyone will be clear about the time issue.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

The best part about this category is all the controversy and discussion its caused. I submitted an entry and withdrew it after re-reading the description. I was just excited about entering a first time contest in woodworking and never read the rules closely. So keep up the great discussion!

Oh, I’m still working a scraping the glue off all those joints so I can re-enter it :-)

haha excellent :0

Gotta love a good challenge :)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

SteveV its a great Project.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Thanks! Its my first real piece of quality furniture that I’ve made. When I put i all together (dry fit) I realized it almost didn’t need any glue. Based on the stresses of regular use glue was required to keep it looking good for years to come.

just in case you wanted to know? Late last week I took the time to read this discussion for the first time, as I had contravened the NO GLUE rule Martin removed my entry from the competition, hopefully I will have a replacement ready in time?

t.w.

-- Bandsaw Box Plans

That’s too bad Tony because that is a beautiful piece of work.
I hate using glue for anything.lol

-- John in Belgrave http://www.extremebirdhouse.com ....http://community.webshots.com/user/cranbrook2

Thank you Tony for standing up to the rules. It’s a great piece but I was wondering how you could cut out drawers and put them back together without glue.

it is a beautiful piece along with the Lawyer one.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

I feel self-conscious for raising this issue here again, for obvious reasons. However…

This glue thing is beginning to prove a real challenge. I was so impressed with Kaleo’s beautiful stool that he entered. Like Karson, I was curious how on earth he had made it without using glue – but, alas, he had overlooked those restrictions.

I have to state that other than one entry, I suspect there are none currently in this category that meet the restriction of no glue, no mechanical fasteners. The possible exception is Jim’s pyrography – but it doesn’t have joinery, so I doubt that it can be eligible for the joinery comp.

I know that Martin doesn’t intend to police this issue, but I’m wondering if, out of respect for those fine chaps that have taken the time to enter a project into the joinery category, it would save them from potential embarrassment to simple ask them the question – were you aware of the no glue-no mechanical fastener rule?

-- CanuckDon "I just love small wooden boxes!" http://www.hilsbiblechurch.org/

If it’s possible a little nudge wouldn’t hurt, or have them update their description to explain their construction.

I’ll be putting the final touches on my entry and hope to enter it this weekend :).

-- http://theinquisitivewoodworker.com/

I have been asked to consider withdrawing my entry in the joinery category of this competition for my entry “Smile You’re On Wooden Camera”, should it not meet the criteria regarding glue. So I need to inquire about the specifics of the requirements, and if my project does not meet the requirements, it shall be removed.

This project was entered to highlight the glueless joints, specifically the dovetailed joint in 8/4 cherry connecting the bridge/platform of the tripod which holds up the camera, and the wooden hinged door of the camera. There is a plethora of glue elsewhere in the project, the lense laminations, the tripod feet, the camera box parts, etc. So there you have it. Please advise whether this project falls within the guidelines of the requirements.

Lars, I would say that your disclosure is all that is required.

I think the process is one of self-assessment as to whether an entry meets the rules and spirit of the competition. No individual member is going to arbitrate what does and doesn’t.

In the end, it will be the collective voting of LumberJocks that determines the outcome.

Good luck!

-- CanuckDon "I just love small wooden boxes!" http://www.hilsbiblechurch.org/

I appreciate your sentiment. Should the emphasis be more on the macro picture of zero glue/fasteners anywhere in the project, then I would suggest this project not be favored. Then again, the dovetails which are utilized in an uncharacteristic setting, and the wooden hinged camera door make this a good example of wood joinery, whether it gathers votes or not.

Best.

Hi Lars;
—-well here we go again….

”As you can see above the entries in this category should follow this rule: ”joining the wood without the use of glues, metal nails, metal screws or any type of mechanical fastener.”

”the entries in the Wood Joinery should follow this rule: At least one joint and NO glue or mechanical fasteners used to create the joint(s)”

”Wood only joinery, means wood only, no glue or anything that isn’t wood.”

”Wood Joinery – Let’s get technical – but without glues, metal nails, screws or other mechanical fasteners! Yes, this is the “WOOD JOINERY” challenge for all you LumberJocks out there.

”That tells me no glue anywhere, no screws anywhere, no nails anywhere. No other mechanical fasteners. I’m reading that as other mechanical like turnbuckles or metal, plastic parts. If the part is made from wood then OK.”

If I am reading what has been already stated in the rules, the answer to your question is ‘no glue’....’no glue any-where. Since glue is used to fasten two or more pieces of wood to-gether….that means there is a ‘wood joint’ there. The contest is about how to fasten two or more pieces of wood to-gether without ‘glue’ or any-other mechanical fastener besides the use of wood.

A ‘plethora” of glue is still an ‘overplus’ of excess when it comes to ‘wood joinery’....have I missed anything?

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

Hello everyone again;
—-just thinking on this some more and so I thought I would add one more point on the above post. To my way of understanding ‘wood joinery’ and correct me if I’m wrong, when laminating one piece of wood to another….this is also called a ‘face joint’....

Thank you.
GODSPEED,
Frank

-- --frank, NH, http://frank.wordpress.com/

No one has asked, but I’ll bring it up. In my mind no plywood, because that is glued. The constructor of the project might not have glued it but it is a joint and it does have glue.

I don’t want to be a stickler about this, but, I think that is what the description of the contest states.

So that means no veneered projects either, in my mind.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

After the “no glue” being brought to my attention. I just wanted to be up front and honest about my submission. I have added the following statment to the bottom of my description on the quilt rack. “One note for Lumberjock Joinery Contest: The top and sides have been edge glued, along with the feet being glued to the sides. The through tenons, and the wedge tenons do not contain any glue or machanical fasteners”. Good luck to everyone.

-- Greg Mitchell--Lowell, AR--gdamitchell@sbcglobal.net

It is an honor to share this space with my fellow woodworking enthusiasts. A friend of mine introduced me to flickr.com, for the purpose of posting my wedding photos (only seen privately by family and friends). It was through their group linkage that i became aware of this site. When i opened it up, i must admit the first reason I joined was that it was a requirement of the summer contest. Now that I have been on for a week or two, I find that it is much more than that, particularly in the area of comraderie. It is because I value the comraderie element of this site, combined with having read over the plethora of discussion regarding the guidelines and requirements of the wood joinery entries, that I have decided to withdraw the entry “Smile You’re on Wooden Camera” from the contest. In my opinion, considering the load it supports, the dovetail joint in the support is one of my woodworking highs. However, I go along with the purists in the conversations held here, and prefer not to be in the eye of any storm in this friendly neighborhood.

Hey, I think next year there should be a category for the project with the MOST glue!!! I have a couple of excellent contendas, ha ha.

lol now THAT is funny!!!
I’m going to start working on it right now.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Quote Karson: ”No one has asked, but I’ll bring it up. In my mind no plywood, because that is glued. The constructor of the project might not have glued it but it is a joint and it does have glue.

So that means no veneered projects either, in my mind.”

Wow, Karson, I never even gave that a thought, but of course, you are correct. You had me worried for a while, but the solution was easy.

-- CanuckDon "I just love small wooden boxes!" http://www.hilsbiblechurch.org/

less than 24 hours now..
we are on the count down.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I am going as fast as I can Scottie!!! :) Hopefully tonight I will get it posted!!!

-- http://rjoneswoodworks.com/

half an hour left!!!!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

It’s Over now, let the campaigning begin…

-- Rob (A) Waxahachie,TX

lol one week of voting and then the Awards recipients will be announced. Oh the anticipation!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Just wanted to say thanks for the opportunity to compete. I just recently discovered LumberJocks and I entered my garden project because I just happend to have something that fit the category.

But I really got interested in the wood joinery competition. I know that I struggled with ideas and tried a few things before I built my project. I can see from the entries that we have a number of very clever and talented members.

Don’t know what the next contest will be but I’d vote for something like this competition that will stretch not just our woodworking skills but our brains as well.

-- Leon -- Houston, TX - " I create all my own designs and it looks like it "

The voting hasn’t even closed on this Challenge, and I’m already looking forward to the next Challenge!

-- http://theinquisitivewoodworker.com/

Anticipation is good. Working on it is better.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Karson – sometimes anticipation is a good remedy for constipation, but working on the next challenge and fighting the deadline can be to. can’t wait for the next one.

Hope we have more entries. Join the next one fellow LJ’s

-- Joel Tille

I wonder what we will vote in next? the 2×4 idea?

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Hey how about a birdhouse building contest ? lol

-- John in Belgrave http://www.extremebirdhouse.com ....http://community.webshots.com/user/cranbrook2

lol what a unique idea, John… lol
a contest to see who would come in 2nd!! :)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Ha! 2nd! More like 30th, isn’t he up around number 29?

-- Rob (A) Waxahachie,TX

Oh well i tried . lol

-- John in Belgrave http://www.extremebirdhouse.com ....http://community.webshots.com/user/cranbrook2

hi,

well, this is disappointing. i pulled my entry “Smile You’re on Wooden Camera” out of the Wood Joinery contest, after some discussion. Now, I find that my entry for garden projects is not even listed for voting under Garden Projects. Who ya gonna call?

Send Martin a Personal Message, if he can do anything he’ll let you know. He’s the one who started this string, waaaayyyy at the top.

-- Rob (A) Waxahachie,TX

that is more than disappointing.. that is frustrating!!!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

well, I suppose after reading all this, I must have offended just about everyone here. My apologies.

I also received a note asking that I withdraw my submission to avoid any embarrassment. Unfortunately, I did not see that note until today.

So for anyone that has not yet voted, please do not vote for my entry.

-- ~ www.darrylmasterson.com ~ www.darrylmasterson.etsy.com ~ www.woodworkingdungeon.blogspot.com ~

my, my, my, this event sure has had its challenges, with its highs and its lows. .. not sure what else to say but “hang in there” ??

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

darryl

It is my understanding that all works get listed for voting.

However, when a contest participant goes to vote their work is excluded from the list of works shown to that LJ, that is because you are not permitted to vote for your own work!

t.w.

-- Bandsaw Box Plans

Opps sorry Darryl, I keyed your name in my previous note (re the listing of the competition entries) when it should have been addressed to Lar. My apology to Darryl and Lar

Tony Ward

-- Bandsaw Box Plans

dah.. of course, Tony!! Why didn’t I think of that?? :)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I knew that. lol

-- John in Belgrave http://www.extremebirdhouse.com ....http://community.webshots.com/user/cranbrook2

BOY….....oh BOY!!!!!!!

Just completed my first perusal through the Summer Challenge entries…...selecting is no easy task. Still need to narrow.

Nicely done entrants!!!!!.........................more proof that it’s good to be Lumberjock.

Neil

NO ENTRIES are excluded from the voting. You just don’t see your entries in the dropdown when you’re casting your votes because you could not vote for your project anyways.

Other voters see your entries in the voting dropdown and may vote for it. There is also a note about this on the voting screen.

Hope this clarifies any confusions.

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

I’m getting antsy….............when do we hear?????

Neil

Aug. 8
6 AM CDT.

tick tick tick

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

OH…....man!!!!!!(sigh)!!!!

Like the LJ Sign and Mom’s 80th…..MsD.

Hmmm about 11 hours…

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

I ran down to the wire… I’ll have to apply for an absentee ballot next time! Good luck everyone!

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

”Knotty Knotty” Scott, I’m sorry you missed the vote, I was counting on you. LOL

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

well, once again, (just as with the table challenge) it has been the journey that is the most exciting. (even if you don’t get your entry into the list)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Congrats to the Award Recipients. You are well deserving of the recognition!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Congratulations to those whose work was voted in the top 5.

Nice to see a box (by Don – “I just love small wooden boxes!”) ~ a small work won the 3rd prize, goes to disprove the theory that only large works win!

-- Bandsaw Box Plans

Yeah.. CONGRATS to the winners. Official winners announcement is coming soon.

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://profile.to/msojka

Wow…I’m shocked…....happy, but shocked. Thanks so much to everyone for the honor. I actually would have loved to see Deb’s sign take 1st place. There is a true Lumberjock beneath that beaver hat!

Congrats to all the entrants. Great works from everyone.

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

Congratulations to all of the winners!!!

And the same to all the loosers too. Without the loosers there can’t be any winners. LOL

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Congrats to everyone, even all the voters..

-- Rob (A) Waxahachie,TX

No losers here, Dick! LOL

Congrat’s to everyone.

-- CanuckDon "I just love small wooden boxes!" http://www.hilsbiblechurch.org/

hey … how-about-next-time a “arts and crafts style” quartersawn white oak framed stoneware tile with

bronze patina finish challenge for the next contest >griN<

good luck to all the winners !! some fantastic pieces !!!

-- work from your heart and your spirit will live forever

Congrats to the winners,... and everyone who tied for 6th place!

no losers in this bunch!

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

So I woke up this morning, too 2 finches looking at each other with a look of bewilderment wondering if they should reside in Extreme Birdhouse #29 or waite for #30.
Unphased, I walked into my pergula, took a quick swing in the glider and proceeded to tie-up my tomatoes to my “Chess Trellis”. Picked a few weeds, turned on the spinkler and exited though my new Babcock gate, which works really well with my cedar fence.

I then get a holler’in from inside……....coffee on????? Of course not, so inside I go to my wall-hung walnut Shaker cabinet, pull out my Sisters, OR Coffee blend, some jam and make 8 cups. I walk by my joint storage box, picked up a prototype, walk outside, sit down in one of my adorindack chairs and study my hand-tool abilities.

Another holler’in from the inside……..coffee ready???........ “YUP!!!!, I’ll meet you at the Cedar Picnic Table”, I reply and put my joinery sample on the “Patio Side Table”

Gigi and I go over our day…….she asks what’s on the agenda, I mention writing bills on my oak desk, hangin my LJ sign on the pergula, then hit the shop hard. All of the “Dilemna Decisions Made”.

We watch the birdies decide, walk to our adirondack chairs for a look over our garden, and Gigi comments’ doesn’t “Tsuga Canadensis” look pretty when the sprinkler hits it.

Tonight we Bar-b-que…..”Do I smell smoke”?

NICE JOB entrants!!!!!.................Neil

haha that’s quite the environment you have, Neil—filled with such winning woodworking pieces :)

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Nice work Neil, great snap shot of the entrants..

-- Rob (A) Waxahachie,TX

Thanks for all of the votes. It is a privilege to be a part of the great group of people.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

I must say being tied for 6th does have it’s advantages? Next time I need to try harder, I mean learn more and raise the bar and if it weren’t for all the talent around here I probably wouldn’t challange myself as much as I do and for that I thank the winners on a job well done!!! Truly amazing work guys!

Thanks again,
RJ

-- http://rjoneswoodworks.com/

Hehe…that was good Neil. Thanks for being a sponsor.

-- Bob, Carver Massachusetts, Sawdust Maker http://www.capecodbaychallenge.org

Yay Neil!

Well RJ, as long as we keep playing (and things stay par for the course) the worst we’ll ever place it 6th – something to be said for performing consistantly, no? ;)

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Scott,
Being consistant is key!

-- http://rjoneswoodworks.com/