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Assembling a Cyclone

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Forum topic by DavidNJ posted 06-09-2013 10:58 PM 1006 views 1 time favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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DavidNJ

389 posts in 1387 days


06-09-2013 10:58 PM

I have the Penn State Cyclone…half in boxes, half out. It looks quite rugged. The motor/blower weighs a ton! (Actually 85lbs according to the box). The instructions call for the cyclone (maybe 50lbs) to be assembled inverted on top of the motor/blower, the the whole assembly inverted and lifted into place. That complete assembly would appear to be both heavy and awkward to handle.

Has anyone here tackled this before? If so, how did you do it? Did you build a jig?

I’m thinking of building a jig that connects the mounts to a piece of plywood, the plywood by 2×6s or 2×8s to a pivot at the right height. Then after it is assembled just rotate it on the jig. The jig could end up just being a stand. One advantage would be disassembly if needed for a repair.

This is what the unit looks like:


17 replies so far

View FirehouseWoodworking's profile

FirehouseWoodworking

680 posts in 2666 days


#1 posted 06-10-2013 02:21 AM

David,

IMHO, if you put the cyclone on any sort of moving/rotating jig, you stand to induce a lot of unnecessary vibration and additional noise. The cyclone needs to be mounted very solid.

Rather, get a few buddies to help you raise it into place. Good luck!

Cheers!

-- Dave; Lansing, Kansas

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DavidNJ

389 posts in 1387 days


#2 posted 06-10-2013 03:50 AM

Once in final position all the parts would be rigid. The jig would allow it to be assembled so that a simple rotation placed it at the correct height and orientation. The unit is only supported by two metal L-brackets 20” apart with no triangulation for support and two smaller L-brackets 7 1/2” apart for stability. No one has reported a problem with the brackets and or any problems with the units. That seems pretty common for the better dust collectors.

I’m beginning to think I’ll mount the whole thing on wheels with a 3/4” plywood base about 1/2”-3/4” above the floor. The 12” between the bin and cyclone can be shortened for clearance. That isn’t to make it a moveable item, but to allow it to be easily moved into position and maybe change the position as I continue to clear out areas in the basement. It is pretty crowded down there now with three 4 big pieces of equipment (table saw, band saw, planer, drill press) in addition to what was there already (storage, bicycles, gym, golf club assembly area, computer assembly area).

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FirehouseWoodworking

680 posts in 2666 days


#3 posted 06-10-2013 04:35 AM

David,

Sounds reasonable. If you’re going that route, why not build the frame/jig and then lay it down on the floor. Assemble the cyclone on the floor and attach it to the frame/jig on the while it is still on the floor. Then push it over to generally where you want it and just stand the whole thing up? The frame/jig will act somewhat as a lever and assist you in lifting the awkwardly shaped cyclone into final position.

If you want to move it later, just lower the whole thing back to the ground and repeat the process.

Cheers!

-- Dave; Lansing, Kansas

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DavidNJ

389 posts in 1387 days


#4 posted 06-10-2013 04:47 AM

The cyclone isn’t stable on its side. Inverted the weight of the motor relative to the cyclone lets it work ok.

I’m still working on the design. I’m guessing that after rotating to position the plywood the brackets are bolted to will in turn be bolted to a frame made with 2×4s. I’m thinking of using 1/4” plywood on the sides to give the structure rigidity rather than rely on frame alone.

It will probably take me more time sourcing the pieces and building the frame than some people spend assembling the cyclone. However, it will let me do it without finding help. In my 20s, there were lots of friends to help move, lift, etc. Now, they are all on the golf course. :(

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3767 posts in 1887 days


#5 posted 06-10-2013 11:47 AM

My Oneida was much the same. I assembled it upright, but I had an engine hoist to lift the motor/blower onto the top of the body. The first time I mounted it to the wall brackets, I used the engine hoist for that….it wasn’t that easy, I needed clearance above the cyclone for the boom/chains I was using to lift it and only had an inch to spare (9’ceilings). Besides, when lifted with the hoist the cyclone tipped slightly making sitting it on the wall bracket a struggle. So over time I had to take it down for a change, and then bought a platform lift ($160, HF). I used it to lift the thing up and roll it on to the bracket….much, much better. You can rent these things as well, if you’re doing it by your self I highly recommend it.” Here’s a pic of how that looked”: [IMG]http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii280/Fredhargis/Lift.jpg[/IMG][/URL].

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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kizerpea

772 posts in 1761 days


#6 posted 06-10-2013 12:01 PM

Make sure u leave extra space for a taller catch can, so if want to change it later..

-- IF YOUR NOT MAKING DUST...YOU ARE COLLECTING IT! SOUTH CAROLINA.

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Bluepine38

3327 posts in 2478 days


#7 posted 06-10-2013 02:28 PM

I second Fred, a friend has an old Delta cyclone mounted the same way when the bearings went out. He
used his platform lift to lower and raise it with a minimum of trouble.

-- As ever, Gus-the 77 yr young apprentice carpenter

View TJMD's profile

TJMD

9 posts in 59 days


#8 posted 07-30-2016 11:25 AM

Hi David. I have been researching DC now for about 3 months, and came across your series of postings. It was amazing that I seemed to have traveled a similar path, narrowed my options to the same machines; PSI Tempest 1425 S, A Grizzly G0441. My workshop will be in my two car garage, and I am building a small shed to house the DC in. This should reduce both noise and dust. Plus I can vent outside. I dot plan to work Dec-February too much, and if I do, I will have the air filter installed inside the garage for return air.

I also considered just going the tried and true route with a Grizzly G1030 four bagger with a Super DD cyclone since it will all be outside. However this will only save about $300 and Id lose a lot of air flow or cfms.

My question to you is multifaceted – Are you happy with the PSI 1425S? Would you buy it again? Would you buy another brand? Would you buy the 1535S? Would you go another route?

Are there other questions or issues that you would consider?

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Aj2

601 posts in 1191 days


#9 posted 07-30-2016 06:50 PM

TJMD did you know your responding to a 3 year old post?
Anyway I happen to have that same cyclone I think ive has it for about 10 years.The only thing I have done to it was a new run capacitor.
But I wouldn’t buy a new One from penn state.Im pretty sure I read that they were going out of business.Just sounds too risky.

Aj

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JBrow

686 posts in 313 days


#10 posted 07-30-2016 07:24 PM

DavidNJ,

With careful planning, it sounds as if your approach would work.

I did not mount my cyclone to the wall. Instead I installed the cyclone in a free standing tower on castors using 2” x 3” lumber skinned with ½” plywood. I went the tower route because I felt I could achieve better noise abatement since I could place insulation between the cyclone components and the shell of the tower and the unit could be moved should servicing ever be required.

An advantage of the tower method is that it allowed the motor and impeller to be installed while the unskinned tower frame was resting on the floor, using some blocking and clamps. Once the motor was mounted, the tower was stood upright (before installing castors). Using a method similar to that described by Fred Hargis the cyclone body was installed. I used the box in which the cyclone was shipped with plywood and some blocking to raise the cyclone to the right height.

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TJMD

9 posts in 59 days


#11 posted 07-31-2016 10:27 AM

AJ2; Yes I realized the post was three years old. I have been going down the same path and determined the cost of a four bag 3HP Grizzly with a separator was about the cost of a PSI cyclone, and the cyclone offered better separation, better air flow, better dust disposal, and less space. My interest is now that people have bought a cyclone, Grizzly, PSI, Oneida or Clear Vue,

how do they like it,

would they buy that same DC again,

what would they do differently

What troubles or issues have they encountered?

There is a lot of discussion about what to buy on this thread but not a lot of discussion about how they like what they bought.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

1760 posts in 1382 days


#12 posted 07-31-2016 11:23 AM

I bought an Oneida Super Dust Gorilla and have posted a blog about it. I like it very much and have no complaints and would buy it again. I have had no problems with it. I think the ClearVue is very similar.

You should take a look at the performance curves for the dust collectors and read some of the articles where they have been tested. Some of the companies post performance levels that are fantasy.

The other thing to look at is the filters. I wanted to have HEPA rated filters. The bag filters allow too much dangerous dust in the air IMHO.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3767 posts in 1887 days


#13 posted 07-31-2016 11:49 AM

I’m at the opposite end of the Oneida opinion from redoak. I bought an SDG in 2006 and have been nothing but unhappy with it (a very, very long story I’ve told dozens of times). If I was doing it over it would be a CV. As it turns out, we’ve moved recenly and I’m building my next shop…it may start up with a CV and I’ll sell the SDG.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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TJMD

9 posts in 59 days


#14 posted 07-31-2016 12:03 PM

RedOak; Thank you for your reply. I actually found another previous post by you discussing the Oneida SDG that was just what I was looking for. I agree any bag unit will push dust back into the air and that is not what I want at all. I had one years ago, and hated all the dust that settled everywhere. Im getting back into woodworking again and vowed to make sure I handled dust the best I could. A cyclone seems to be what is needed.

I live in MD where its pretty nice 8 – 9 months, really cold for about 6 weeks and really humid for about 6 weeks. Ive insulated the garage ceiling and walls, upgraded electric with 220v and many more 110v outlets, put up dry wall on ceiling and OSB on the wall. Now its time to decide on a DC. I am building a small shed next to the garage for a DC to eliminate noise and ambient dust. I will vent the DC outlet outside during good months and return air back into the garage into a filter inside the garage during those bad months. The nearest neighbor is about 100 yds away with trees between us. Ive pretty much eliminated bag units bc I cant return air from them into the garage, the cost approaches a cyclone once you buy a decent bag DC with good bags/cannisters ($1000), build/buy a separator and cleanup is just a messy dusty chore. I will be working in a two car attached garage that has the gas furnance/air exchanger, so I want to make sure I don’t impact it. My longerest run will be 30-ft with 6 in S&D PVC. Initially I plan only about 6 drops or wyes. Distance to DW735 and Grizzly 6-in Joiner will be less than 15-ft with a calculated SP of 3-in and to Jet 2 HP cabinet saw will be less than 20-ft with a calculated SP of less than 4-in. Longest run would be 35-ft with calculated SP of 8-in.

It seems that a 2 HP cyclone will meet the current needs, but if I ever opt for a large sander, a 3 HP unit might be better.

Ive read so much over the past 6 months about this topic, but most has been theoretical, older journal articles (2002, 2004, 2006, 2008 and 2013) or just opinions. Now Im seeking experience, realizing every shop and setup is unique. Over the past week I have flipped from a PSI 1425S to a Grizzly G0440, then the G0441, back to the PSI, then considered the PSI 1535S. What causes me to flip back and forth is the concern about quality, whether PSI is going out of business (rumors) and comments/reviews from other buyers.

PSI got good reviews in Wood (2003 and 2013) but customer service seems lacking. Most reviewers seem happy with their decision. The DC met the basic expectations.

Grizzly reviews in magazines were so so; some customers love the DC, some hate it. Seems a real 50/50 split. The basic design was good, poor separation and but poor motor quality and construction.

Oneida reviews are very good, overall good customer satisfaction but they are really expensive for the hobbist. Plus they have so many options and models. Will the plastic cyclone last over the years?

Clearvue – really good reputation, backed by good design and Bill Pentz endorsement (he gets a royalty) but they are costly, you have to do a lot of assembly and its plastic. Will that plastic last 15 yrs? Outside in a shed?

As an aside question that impacts the future decision – a lot of the cyclones have big inlet/outlet pipe. Should you reduce that size immediately, or run a 7 or 8-in main at least several ft, or all the way to the tool? Larger pipe is hard to find and costly.

Thanks for reading and any future input. Ive summarized a lot of what everyone seems to have learned over the past 15 yrs just looking for that silver bullet or unexpected windfall of cash.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3767 posts in 1887 days


#15 posted 07-31-2016 01:19 PM


As an aside question that impacts the future decision – a lot of the cyclones have big inlet/outlet pipe. Should you reduce that size immediately, or run a 7 or 8-in main at least several ft, or all the way to the tool? Larger pipe is hard to find and costly.

- TJMD

TJMD, you didn’t ask me, but I thought I would share what Oneida told me directly about the question above. I spent quite a bit of time working with them on my setup, and they stressed (again, this was 10 years ago) that I need to make 7’ (+/-) of pipe going into the cyclone the same diameter as the inlet. It also needed to be as straight as possible, and any elbows should be of a very gentle radius. In their words this was critical for optimal seperation (one of the problems I’ve had/have). I did as they suggested and necked down to 6” PVC after the 7’.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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