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Sealcoat and JPW

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Forum topic by HorizontalMike posted 424 days ago 903 views 1 time favorited 22 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1520 days


424 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: shellac stripping jpw johnsons paste wax spray spraying

What started out to be a good day didn’t end that way. I had been coating my cobbler’s bench with 1-2 coats of Sealcoat per day for the last 3 days. Today I sanded with #0000 and then used a tack cloth and compressed air before taking the bench out to the driveway to add a final layer of spray can Clear Shellac (also de-waxed). This was about 9am here in S. Texas and temps ~70F. I finished spraying several coats until the can was empty and I had a rather nice smooth finish. Then it happened…

I walked back into the shop to toss the spray can and returned to the driveway. My gray cat almost died today, but I couldn’t catch him. He had jumped on top of the bench with the wet shellac, that had previously looked so good. Now I had paw prints with dirt. I tried to fix with a DA dampened T-shirt and got most of the tracks blended in. I then hung out for an hour “guarding” the bench. After an hour I was able to pick the bench up and return it to the shop and on top of my workbench.

I waited another 3-hours before returning to the closed up shop, that was now ~90F. As I had done with my Shaker Chest, I proceeded to power buff JPW on the top of the bench to bring up the sheen and eliminate any remaining streaks.

THE PROBLEM: The shellac had not fully dried and I now had an ugly, sticky, waxy mess. The sheen was gone and only parts of the shellac coating remained. How best can I minimize the “fix” on this? The bottom surfaces are fine and were NOT waxed. Some of the elevated drawer/shelf is only slightly affected. The middle of the flat bench top (that covers 80% of the table/bench) is dull and appears to have lost most of its shellac.

I know that DA cuts shellac and cuts JPW, so what do ya’ll think? Just try and do a piece meal strip of the affected areas?

It looked good all glossy, but to tell the truth, when parts went back to a dull satin it looked more authentic IMO. Should I just try and thin out the entire top surface until it is semi-stripped, let it fully cure for days, and then wax?

Puzzled in paradise… 8-(

OH, and in case you don’t think I got the shaft on this today, that comes tomorrow. I am scheduled for my 10yr old guy colonoscopy. Oh joy… NOT! ;-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."


22 replies so far

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3283 posts in 1419 days


#1 posted 424 days ago

I have stripped and refinished cabinet tops and tabletops in pretty short order. Since it is all flat, the work goes quickly. If you want to speed up the application of shellac, try a gravity feed HVLP gun.
I can finish a top with two coats in an afternoon.
Woodriver has a great gun for $29. I use one, and it compares favorably to my other guns.

Good luck with it.
“A little more effort, and what seemed hopeless defeat may become glorious success”
-paraphrased from Elbert Hubbard

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1520 days


#2 posted 424 days ago

I have a compressor and a quart prayer. Used it once and it was obvious I didn’t know what I was doing. At least it was a deck job and I was spraying stain.

What mixture of DA and Zinnser Clear Shellac should I mix? And how low to go on the air?

The only time I did this I used way too much air and ended up wearing most of the stain.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3283 posts in 1419 days


#3 posted 424 days ago

I have sprayed everything from straight sealcoat (pretty thin), to straight 2# cut shellac out of the can. You can thin it 10% with denatured alcohol if you want. I spray at 35 psi (at the gun) with a gravity feed style gun.
The old siphon style guns are awful, but the gravity feed type seem to be universally great. I have read many reviews, and most are positive.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3356 posts in 2566 days


#4 posted 424 days ago

Mike, I would be tryin’ to feed the cat DNA and JPW as presented on a well oiled .38 special.
After having said that politically incorrect statement….................
80/20 shellac and DNA after a sanding. Don’t know what gun ya have, but if it is a std. siphon or pressure gun, set the air at about 40 psi and see what ya get. Practice first.
Get a big dog. They love cats (for breakfast). :)))
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1520 days


#5 posted 424 days ago

Ok, I went out to the shop and found my spray gun. It is an old Craftsman 1qt siphon cup. There are two adjustments on the gun and I have loaded it with H2O for practice. How do I best set the two adjustments? My compressor is set between 30-40psi

Do I want a very fine mist? Heavy? And how do I best determine what I am getting, having not done this but once over a decade ago?

Looks similar but not exactly like this one:

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3283 posts in 1419 days


#6 posted 424 days ago

I had a Craftsman “HVLP” gun like that, but it was problematic for me. It would only spray horizontal surfaces, but would tend to cut out on vertical surfaces. I have switched to gravity-feed and never looked back. Since gravity feeds fluid to the nozzle, you can run at lower pressure.

On practice boards or cardboard, adjust it for a wet even coat with no runs.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1307 posts in 789 days


#7 posted 424 days ago

For spraying shellac, you’ll want it be a little more wet than for other finishes, since the alcohol evaporates very quickly, especially on a Texas summer day. If your mist is too fine, the shellac will crystalize in the air before it hits your surface. Keep the cut thin, and I second spraying a test panel or two to get it dialed in correctly.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1520 days


#8 posted 424 days ago

OK, I think I have the gun set to a relatively acceptable rate, I think.

QUESTION (s):
  • How thorough do I need to be about JPW removal? You know, nooks and crannies, corners, etc.
  • Will spraying on a new layer of Shellac dissolve/absorb any remaining JPW and NOT have adhesion issues? In other words, I don’t want to use so much DA as to lift the earlier coats of shellac that have actually cured.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1307 posts in 789 days


#9 posted 424 days ago

I’d maybe give a wipe with acetone or something first to get the remaining paste wax (took me a second to figure out what you meant at first, but I’m up to speed now).

Spraying on the next shellac layer will melt (slightly) into the previous layer, but that’s a good thing. Since you’re re-spraying the flat surfaces, it’ll self level a bit if you’ve got your gun dialed in with no runs. Don’t go too heavy, though.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1520 days


#10 posted 424 days ago

OK, I just finished rubbing down the entire waxed areas with naphtha (acetone seemed to cut too much) and got pretty much ALL of the wax/uncured-shellac crud off of the bench/table. All of today’s shellac is gone, though there is an underlying layer of well cured shellac over nearly all parts. In other words, there is a complete seal coat.

This will have to sit until Friday as Wed and Thur are busy. So, I will try to spray with my HVLP gun Friday (a new experience) and I will ABSOLUTELY wait 3-4 days for a complete curing session for the shellac before buffing out w/JPW.

Lesson learned for sure. I keep you all posted.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2939 posts in 892 days


#11 posted 424 days ago

Here’s what I’d do. Let it dry completely, I’m talking a week or so. Sand it with a ROS with 600 and if that aint enough, 320 just to smooth it out. Then shellac again, but first kill that damn cat. lol

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1520 days


#12 posted 411 days ago

OK, I finally got around to putting a spray finish of Clear Shellac on this cobbler’s bench.

Got delayed from doing this earlier from having a “routine” 10-yr colonoscopy that didn’t turn out to be so routine. I had so much fun getting this procedure that I went back at the end of the week and had it done AGAIN! Spent 2-days in the hospital to get all things actually fixed this time. At least I didn’t bleed out, close but no bananas… Suffice it to say 3-polyps and one was a bleeder. All better now, but get to repeat this in 3-years from here on out, instead of the normal 10-year interval. Yeah, yeah, yeah… what a PITA… ;-)

Anyway, the shellac finish is evenly coating the top, but with a pronounced ‘orange peal’ that will need to be buffed out. This time I will make sure to wait at least a week before attempting to buff, in order to not make the same mistake twice (see above). On top of that I had the LOML standing ‘cat-guard’ while spraying and cleaning up the HVLP gun. The cat now gets to live another day… for now. ;-)

Oh yeah, I used 10% Isopropyl alcohol to thin the shellac in order to get a longer open time. Sprayed in ~80F with reasonably high humidity. This worked out very well IMO, so I will probably make this a routine mixture for my summertime shop here in south Texas.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View HerbC's profile

HerbC

1155 posts in 1465 days


#13 posted 410 days ago

Mike,

Sorry to hear of the problems with the colonoscopy. Thankfully you/they caught the problems and hopefully that will keep things from being a lot worse…

I had colon cancer surgery in 2007 to remove a tumor that was not a simple polyp removal. Had an excellent surgeon who did a great job. I got annuals until last year, made it past the 5 yr mark clean, now have to get scoped every three years…

Good luck with both your health and your project.

BTW, I’d murder that cat.

Herb

-- Herb, Florida - Here's why I close most messages with "Be Careful!" http://lumberjocks.com/HerbC/blog/17090

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1520 days


#14 posted 410 days ago

Thanks Herb.

Just checked this final coat of shellac, now 48hr old, and it is curing well in the +95F heat of the shop but in the shade. Learned the hard way last time, when setting the fresh shellac in the sun I had many bubbles rise and harden in place. Lessons learned there as well. Looking forward to getting that final JPW buffing done and bringing this thing inside.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

10606 posts in 1296 days


#15 posted 410 days ago

I too have experienced the shellac bubble finish when placed in the sun. A unique look! But not exactly what I was going for. My bubbles were the size of grapes!

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

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