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board & batten over 2x4 frame - stability question

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Forum topic by Charlie posted 05-22-2013 12:28 PM 1849 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Charlie

1017 posts in 951 days


05-22-2013 12:28 PM

8×10 garden shed for wife. While roofing this I noticed the whole thing “wiggles”.
Normally I’d say, “oh well. It’ll tighten up once I get the sheathing on the walls.”, but the walls aren’t being sheathed. I’m going to clad this in board and batten using 1” hemlock (1×10s with 1×3 battens). For girts I plan to use a 2×6 at the bottom and then 2×4 at middle and top, then put the boards up.

Should I put some diagonal bracing between the girts or will this tighten up once I get the boards on? It feels real solid if I’m standing on the ground and try to shake it, I only noticed it wiggling a bit when I was up on the roof.

Oh…. only seems to move the long way. (Parallel to the ridge). It doesn’t move at all on the short walls (perpendicular to the ridge).


13 replies so far

View nailbanger2's profile

nailbanger2

962 posts in 1809 days


#1 posted 05-22-2013 12:35 PM

I would put some diagonal bracing, myself. But then again, I wouldn’t put B&B siding on. I’m not saying you shouldn’t, but somewhere along the way I convinced myself that vertical lap joints don’t work as well as horizontal on exterior siding. It’s only a garden shed, so do as you will.

-- Wish I were Norm's Nephew

View JoeinGa's profile

JoeinGa

3284 posts in 672 days


#2 posted 05-22-2013 12:35 PM

”It feels real solid if I’m standing on the ground and try to shake it, I only noticed it wiggling a bit when I was up on the roof.”

Hmmmm, maybe that’s not a statement on your construction, but perhaps you’ve put on a few pounds lately? LOL

-- Perform A Random Act Of Kindness Today ... Pay It Forward

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1017 posts in 951 days


#3 posted 05-22-2013 12:58 PM

joein10asee, yeah…. I’m stil carrying some “winter weight” hehehe…. I think I’m at around 210. I usually get down around 185 in summer. Projects make me work hard and I sometimes forget breakfast or lunch (or both).

nailbanger2, it’s b&b because SWMBO wants b&b. Like you said, it’s a garden shed. With 1” hemlock on it, I think it will outlast me pretty easily. SWMBO is ok with bugs and mice in a garden shed. Just no racoons or possums. hehehe.

View reedwood's profile

reedwood

882 posts in 1341 days


#4 posted 05-22-2013 01:46 PM

You should have had the walls diagonally braced plumb (temp 2×4s inside) before framing the roof.
Did you double the top plate and overlap the corners?... that helps a little.

You don’t have to put in permanent bracing seeing how it’s a small structure but it would help in a big wind storm.
The siding will act like a sheet of plywood and stiffen it up if you nail it good. Use a nail gun with galv. 8s on the edges then cover them with 1×2s nailed with galv. siding nails. Use 2 -1×4s on the corners, one ripped to 2 3/4”.

You could sheet the sides with 1/2” cdx ply in half the time which would definitely act as a brace and you wouldn’t have to install 84+ short 2×4s, (2×6s? why?) It would also seal the inside from bugs and bees and give the pre hung door a better surface to nail to.

You could replace the brick mold with 1×4s before installing for a better cottage look.

I would have sheeted the walls before framing the roof so the birds mouths overlap the plywood. so much easier. Sheath the gables covering the last rafter and then frame your soffits.

-- Mark - I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

2543 posts in 1016 days


#5 posted 05-22-2013 02:21 PM

I would sheet in cdx or osb before putting the siding on. That will add racking strength and give you all the nailing you need for the siding.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View guitchess's profile

guitchess

82 posts in 2374 days


#6 posted 05-22-2013 02:48 PM

If you plan to skip the sheathing, I would highly suggest cut in/wind braces. Board and baton siding doesn’t offer any real windage brace support, especially after the siding has loosened its fasteners after a few seasons. If you check with your local supplier, they may carry the steel type cut in braces. They are much faster/easier to install than traditional 1×4 bracing.


Another option would be to use an exterior grade ply instead of the 1×10s, then apply the 1×3s as planned. The ply will be more stable, take paint better, and eliminate the need for bracing.

View frosty50's profile

frosty50

27 posts in 1012 days


#7 posted 05-22-2013 02:55 PM

If already built as it sounds, it is a little late to install exterior sheating. I would recommend installing a diagongal brace on the interior of the walls, there is a metal type that is “L” shape and normally comes in 10-12 foot lenghts. Snap a line from top corner of the top plate to the opposite bottom corner of the bottom plate and cut a kerf about an inch deep on the line at each stud. I would then sheath the interior with OSB or 1/2 or 5/8s inch plywood. You should be able to rack it to get walls plumb before intalling the brace. If the interior walls are already sheathed or sheetrock it is too late. Good luck.

-- frosty

View Buckethead's profile

Buckethead

1921 posts in 534 days


#8 posted 05-22-2013 02:57 PM

In Florida lateral stress is a major concern. Really it is everywhere. I would put diagonal bracing along with a row of blocking at the mid point of the wall to nail the 1×10s to. Ideally sheathing would be applied.

Just running the board and battens will make the structure feel solid. It might need to do more than ‘feel’ solid at some point in its lifespan. I think diagonal bracing and a mid row of nailers should accommodate that.

-- Bucket, any person that spends 10k on a bicycle is guaranteed to be a $@I almost started to like you. -bhog

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1017 posts in 951 days


#9 posted 05-22-2013 04:30 PM

The 1×10 boards will only be about 80 inches long. I put 2×6 bottom girt and then 2×4 at top and middle. So everything is getting nailed in 3 places (at minimum). I can still do diagonal bracing on the exterior of the studs with 1×4 like a “V” laying on its side. I can also add diagonal 1×4 inside at any point.

reedwood, yes, it was braced diagonally inside while framing. Double top plate. Overlapped in the corners (top plate and tie plate). I’m not installing blocks between studs as nailers. I’m simply running the 2×6 and 2×4 nailers horizontally on the outside of the studs. It actually stiffened up considerably just doing that. :)

buckethead, No tornadoes or hurricanes here. We rarely get gusts over 50. This shed is nestled into a corner of the yard and protected by trees on 2 sides.

It’s not getting sheathing AND b&b as that would create an inaccessible cavity between the sheathing and b&b that would almost certainly turn into a bee hive. I’ve done the exterior ply with battens thing in the past and it looked like crap after a few years. Only 2 of the walls are plain. One of the 10 foot walls has a window centered and one gable end has a door AND a window.

I am gonna go with the general consensus that it needs some kind of diagonal bracing. I’ll need a few 1×4s …

thanks!

View Buckethead's profile

Buckethead

1921 posts in 534 days


#10 posted 05-22-2013 08:14 PM

Sounds reasonable. It sounds like you’re using 2×4s as horizontal firring/nailers. I would recommend making sure you nail that to the top and bottom plates every six inches with minimum 3” nails.

I’m sure you are overbuilding, but what the heck? Far better than under building. In the framing world there is a saying: when in doubt, max it out.

-- Bucket, any person that spends 10k on a bicycle is guaranteed to be a $@I almost started to like you. -bhog

View IrreverentJack's profile

IrreverentJack

724 posts in 1508 days


#11 posted 05-22-2013 09:18 PM

Sheathing – I would use it and 15/30# felt under the siding. If you don’t you will get fine snow blowing in at the seams along with the lower strength/rigidity. -Jack

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1254 posts in 614 days


#12 posted 05-23-2013 02:19 AM

you can get a T-brace and cut it in, or I have used band iron from a bunk of plywood. I prefer the band iron on a shed, because on the outside I nail it from the top right to bottom left. on the inside I do the opposite. also it gets nailed to everything it touches. this style of X bracing is rock solid.

View woodbutcherbynight's profile

woodbutcherbynight

1273 posts in 1074 days


#13 posted 05-23-2013 02:31 AM

I did the same thing once, put a building up with no sides then put the roof on in my humble attempt to “dry it in”. (laughing) My Grandfather laughed at me for a week… (laughing)

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

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