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plane blade flattening issue

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Forum topic by Tugboater78 posted 05-18-2013 08:50 PM 881 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Tugboater78

1209 posts in 888 days


05-18-2013 08:50 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question plane sharpening

so ive been trying to flatten the back of this pita for days off and on but it just wont go flat

using 50-60-80 grit

the problem areas marked, i know i dont need the whole back done but the corner is a problem and the other part i would prefer it to be a little further back

the pictures make it look better than it really is. The marked areas are clearly, in person, not getting any love from the sandpaper.

-- Justin - the tugboat woodworker - " nothing changed me like the first shnick from a well sharpened, decent hand plane"


17 replies so far

View Don W's profile

Don W

15283 posts in 1264 days


#1 posted 05-18-2013 09:07 PM

When I flatten an iron like that I have a piece of lumber about 14” long about 2” wide so I can add some down ward pressure. I’d then only worry about the first 1/4”.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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bandit571

7175 posts in 1379 days


#2 posted 05-18-2013 09:10 PM

Take a belt sander, clamp it (Jed) into a vise with the belt on top

Come in front the side, with a fingertip in the middle of the area you want to flatten. When iron gets too hot for the finger, stop, and check progress, while the iron cools down. Repeat as needed.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 1665 days


#3 posted 05-18-2013 09:22 PM

Bandit, I agree, a belt sander will make short work of flattening, but aren’t you supposed to quench plane blades and chisels when they get hot on a belt sander?

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bandit571

7175 posts in 1379 days


#4 posted 05-18-2013 09:38 PM

Too hot for a fingertip? Doesn’t need to be quenched. Air cooled is fine. As long as the heat is controled by your bare fingertip.

This one ( a Millers Falls iron) took maybe ten minutes to get like this. While the honing guide could act like a heat sink, I still keep fingers ahead of the guide, just to keep track of how hot it is getting. I am also doing the bevel side as well.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View BBF's profile

BBF

141 posts in 535 days


#5 posted 05-18-2013 09:45 PM

My suggestion is to get a couple of diamond hones and work your iron on them getting it flat then getting it polished. You can get some diamond hones that are 2 1/2” X 6” in 300 grit and 800 grit form Grizzly for around $13.00 each. H7610 and H7611.

-- I've never been disappointed buying quality but I have been disappointed buying good enough.

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Tugboater78

1209 posts in 888 days


#6 posted 05-18-2013 10:33 PM

i will try some different methods, ill steal neighbors belt sander. The board idea i did try for a bit but it didn’t seem to make much difference, you do anything to hold the blade to the board Don? Or are u meaning putting paper on a board and moving it and blade stationary? That idea just crossed my mind, hmm. i have 2 diamond stones Eze-lap fine and superfine but i am “saving” those for bevel sharpening. At the moment i can’t afford to sink much more cash into sharpening. Maybe next month after the bill collectors get done sucking me dry :)

thanks guys, open to any other suggestions, i have another blade that is similar and wanna get these boys back to work.

-- Justin - the tugboat woodworker - " nothing changed me like the first shnick from a well sharpened, decent hand plane"

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Don W

15283 posts in 1264 days


#7 posted 05-18-2013 10:45 PM

I just put the board on top of the blade. Wrap my hand around everything to hold the blade in place. If you can get some mechanical help, that’s the way to go.

Edit: just be careful not to over heat it.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Clint Searl's profile

Clint Searl

1477 posts in 1057 days


#8 posted 05-18-2013 10:58 PM

As long as the edge is flat, why does the rest matter?

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

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chrisstef

11193 posts in 1702 days


#9 posted 05-18-2013 11:54 PM

Im pretty sure the edge aint flat Clint. Keep after it Tug. If ya wanna dump $300, the worksharp and some Klingspor 80 grit will get it done ;)

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15706 posts in 2914 days


#10 posted 05-19-2013 12:24 AM

I think what Clint is saying is the same thing I was thinking: If the blade is properly sharpened, the cutting edge is going to be flat, even if the blade behind the cutting edge is not perfectly flat. Does that make sense?

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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chrisstef

11193 posts in 1702 days


#11 posted 05-19-2013 12:35 AM

Gotcha Charlie. The issue will be that the iron wont mate properly with the chip breaker allowing shavings to got a jammied up in between the iron and chip breaker. When that happens it’ll clog up the mouth with shavings and make things a real pain in the a$s.

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

View OnlyJustME's profile

OnlyJustME

1562 posts in 1073 days


#12 posted 05-19-2013 12:40 AM

I think it just depends on how finely tuned you want the plane. Sure it will work the way it is but if the blade is flat and the chip breaker is flat and meets the blade perfectly it keeps shavings from jamming.

edit: or what that ^ faster typing guy said. darn desk jockeys.

-- In the end, when your life flashes before your eyes, will you like what you see?

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CharlieM1958

15706 posts in 2914 days


#13 posted 05-19-2013 01:11 AM

Yeah… I was just testing you guys. :-)

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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lwllms

546 posts in 1978 days


#14 posted 05-19-2013 02:09 AM

Justin,

Understanding why you want “flat” is half the battle. You want flat because it’s repeatably uniform through all the stone grits you use. If you’re flat face is flat and your stones are flat, when you switch between grits you’ll get a uniform abrasive signature across the whole flat area of the iron. You’re not wasting a lot of time changing the topography of the flat face to a different topography when you switch between grits. This lets you remove the wear bevel at the flat face’s cutting edge on the coarsest stone necessary and only have to remove the abrasive signature or scratches on the finer stone(s). Which ever stone you put your tool on you’ll get a uniform abrasive scratch pattern.

This makes sharpening very fast. The price of admission is getting the flat faces of your tools flat and keeping your honing stones flat.

Sand paper isn’t very good for this. There’s enough flex in the paper backing that it rolls ahead of the tool and dubs the leading edge of the tool. You can do the initial flattening on a flat surface with something like 80 grit sand paper glued to the surface. Film backed abrasives are better and roll ahead of the tool a lot less. With either, though, you need to be aware of when you’re causing more problems than you’re fixing. When you get to this point, it’s time to switch your flattening to honing stones.

I like oil stones because they wear slowly and maintain their flatness better than water stones. I don’t care for diamond stones for honing because they’re not uniformly flat and the abrasive density is sparse at best. I do use an extra coarse diamond stone to dress my oil stones. This keeps them uniformly flat and exposes fresh abrasive to make them fast cutting. I dress stones each time I use them and any time I feel the cutting action slow. I just leave the slurry from dressing stones on the stones for use. Start dressing with your finest stone and work up to the coarsest stone you’ll use and you don’t even have to wipe the diamond stone between the different stones. For most sharpening I just use two honing stones, a fine India and a translucent hard Arkansas.

View Tugboater78's profile

Tugboater78

1209 posts in 888 days


#15 posted 05-19-2013 05:28 AM

to clarify my method, i started with 80 grit, cause it was what i had, it is glued down to MDF. Since i was getting nowhere i bought some 50-60 and been using it since.

I am sure there is some slight flex, as you say lwllms, to the paper but I’m sure my human error would do more to harm with any method than it would. I have some course oil stones, but their flatness is suspect and currently have no way to make them that way.

my current sharpening setup: for bevels ( have an eclipse guide i had been using, but started trying freehand and seem to get better results lately)

80grit->120->220 sandpaper → EZlap fine-> super fine-> brown arkansas stone?( not sure of level but its finer than the diamond stones) → leather strop with green jewelers rouge.

i start with sandpaper on new2me blades that look rough no lube, i start with the diamond stones with “cleaner” looking blades with some automotive window cleaner as “lube” like paul sellers.

this may be too much or too little but the few blades that i have used this on are cutting through some old reclaimed oak like butter on my #5 and #8 and on pine 2×4 like the its not even cutting, though i see the shavings roll out. keep in mind I am not saying i am any expert, i just now am getting good sharpening results.

the problem with this blades back has me puzzled cause it seems i got to this spot and its going nowhere.

Thanks everyone for the contributions thus far though, gives me the urge to keep at it, i walked away this morning after giving another go and my frustration level was so high i almost tried using it like a ninja star into my shed wall.

-- Justin - the tugboat woodworker - " nothing changed me like the first shnick from a well sharpened, decent hand plane"

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