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Troubleshooting Jet Tablesaw

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Forum topic by mjohnsonco posted 05-18-2013 12:54 AM 1668 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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mjohnsonco

15 posts in 1348 days


05-18-2013 12:54 AM

Topic tags/keywords: tablesaw

I was running a 230v circuit for my used (new to me) 3hp single phase 15amp Jet Table Saw. Unfortunately, I wired the initial breaker as single pole instead of double pole. When I went to test the saw the motor hummed (it was only getting half power), but didn’t spin the blade at all. I hit the stop switch, but it wouldn’t turn off. I held it in for a couple of seconds, but I suspect something else tripped instead. Now, it’s wired correctly, but when I hit the start switch nothing happens at all. It’s as if it wasn’t even plugged in. So, here’s the question: Does anyone know of a reset switch (besides the mag switch in the control box)? I’m thinking there might be one on the motor? I’m trying to see if this has happened to anyone else or if I’m the only moron on these forums. :)

Also, I know the saw runs fine (it did) because I saw (nice pun) it running just a couple of days ago.


12 replies so far

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toolie

2022 posts in 2089 days


#1 posted 05-18-2013 01:32 AM

have both legs of the 220v circuit been tested for voltage? what model TS do you have?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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Mainiac Matt

5989 posts in 1789 days


#2 posted 05-18-2013 01:46 AM

I wired an extension cord for 220 v from my generator for use on a large 16” wet masons tile saw and botched it in a similar manner.

The saw had to have the starting coil replaced :^(

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

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mjohnsonco

15 posts in 1348 days


#3 posted 05-18-2013 01:50 AM

I have the JTAS-10X model. It’s the right tilt version. I’m rechecking the circuit now. I’m running it on a dual 20amp single pole (double because they’re tandem) breaker. The saw was working when briefly connected to a 40amp double pole circuit. Even though the saw is 15 amp, I’m thinking I may need to go 30amp, which means I’ll need to upgrade my wire from 12/2 to 10/2. My biggest concern is if I’ve damaged the motor by hooking it up (briefly) to a single pole and common (L1 N G) instead of double pole (L1 L2 G).

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toolie

2022 posts in 2089 days


#4 posted 05-18-2013 12:05 PM

hooking a 240v motor to a 120v source shouldn’t have any adverse consequences. when i had a 3hp baldor motor refurbished, the motor shop tested it for me at pick up with a 110v circuit. it just operated slowly. once re-installed and powered with a 220v source, it operated perfectly. also, a 20A single pole 220v circuit is more than adequate to power that TS, unless it has a 5 hp motor. assuming it’s a 3 hp motor, your 12/2 20A circuit is more than sufficient for the saw’s needs. going to a 30A circuit will probably not correct whatever’s causing the saw to not operate.

just to be sure, though, does the breaker on the TS circuit look like this (this is a two pole, 240v breaker that delivers 2 110v legs with each leg powered by one of a service panels’s two phases):

or this (this is a tandem breaker, which delivers 2 110v circuits from the same phase within the service panel):

they are not the same thing. if you’re aware of this, apologies for commenting on the obvious.

what is the model number of that saw to facilitate OM look up. all recent jet tools have a 6 digit model number adn that’s how the OMs are listed on their site.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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mjohnsonco

15 posts in 1348 days


#5 posted 05-18-2013 03:35 PM

Toolie, you hit it exactly! I was dumb enough to believe the guy at HD when he said that a tandem 20 was the same as a two pole 20amp. Your picture clearly illustrates this. I hooked up my wires back to the double 30amp and the saw fired right up. Also, when I had the tandem 20 hooked up, I couldn’t get 240v on my multimeter when probing both sides. I could only get 110v from each side when going to ground. So, lesson here: Listen to the guy at HD and research any inconsistencies your hear, but don’t let them override what you think is right just because they say so.

Thank you all for your inputs. I hope that this post will be helpful to somebody else in the future and THANK GOD I didn’t break anything on my saw.

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REO

889 posts in 1535 days


#6 posted 05-18-2013 04:40 PM

good call Toolie!!

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JamesT

102 posts in 1373 days


#7 posted 05-18-2013 11:56 PM

The guy at HD is not completely wrong, he may not be an electrician or perhaps he didn’t explain how to use the breaker as well as he should have. With the tandem breaker you have to make sure it’s placed in a position in the panel so that it’s plugged into both of the phases. When you remove a full size breaker (or remove the cover of a panel that is not full) you can see if you will pick up both phases with the tandem, or if it’s necessary to shift some full size single pole breakers to allow this. Just wanted to make sure some people didn’t get the impression that you can’t get 240volts using a tandem breaker.

-- Jim from Doniphan

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mjohnsonco

15 posts in 1348 days


#8 posted 05-19-2013 01:50 AM

James, I understand what you’re saying about the phases. Unfortunately, in my case, he didn’t clarify that. Also, I apologize that I swung to the other side of the pendulum in denouncing all tandem breakers. I would imagine that you could also get 240 from two separate breakers as long as they were on opposing phases, although I can’t imagine that would be viewed as a good idea. In my understanding, you want your breakers to be connected so that if one trips they both trip.

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REO

889 posts in 1535 days


#9 posted 05-19-2013 02:32 AM

there is no way with a true tandem (two breakers on one pole) breaker can get 220. the one pictured is as you have said not full size no amount of shifting will get you 220. on a full sized breaker there is no way to take the power on both breakers off one pole. however it is possible on some boxes to get power from one pole only if it is installed where it is instructed “do not use these slots” because there is not a bus connection there. code requires that they be mechanically tied together for 220. there are kits to do this with two separate breakers. it is not possible to install two full sized breakers side by side on the same leg. you can install two tandems side by side and tie the bats together with a kit and you will get 220 from the two middle adjacent breakers.

hope that is not adding to the confusion.

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JamesT

102 posts in 1373 days


#10 posted 05-19-2013 02:44 PM

REO,
I have a 200 amp. Federal Pacific panel that has three double pole breakers that are mechanically tied together. (you cannot take them apart without breaking them). They take up the same space as one full size single pole breaker. Also, they must be installed in a space where they will connect to both hot bus bars or you will not get 240volts. I also have a couple of full size double pole breakers installed, that takes the same space as two single pole breakers. Now…perhaps the breakers I’m using is not the same as the true tandem you’re speaking of. I’ve been retired for several years and I realize that things continually change.

-- Jim from Doniphan

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mjohnsonco

15 posts in 1348 days


#11 posted 05-19-2013 04:02 PM

I think it’s better to clear up the ‘tandem’ I was speaking of. There’s tandem where the breaker occupies two slots and has access to both ‘sides’ of the phase. (Remember it’s AC 60 hz so you have an A and a B portion of the single phase). The breaker I was sold was a tandem single slot breaker. A tandem single slot breaker (to my knowledge) can never support 240vac because it only has access to half the phase. If you have a tandem breaker that has two connections than it’s possible to get 240vac, but you’ll need to bridge the breakers. Double pole breakers always occupy two breaker slots and are always mechanically bridged. This is my current understanding. I’m not an electrician, as you can tell… :)

Clear as mud?

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toolie

2022 posts in 2089 days


#12 posted 05-19-2013 04:27 PM

and the saw fired right up

glad it was something relatively simple and your saw is operating. as this is apparently a recent purchase, how about a pic or two of your new tool for the rest of us to enjoy?

With the tandem breaker you have to make sure it’s placed in a position in the panel so that it’s plugged into both of the phases

got to agree with REO. tandem breakers are generally, by definition i believe, two breakers in a single breaker (one phase) slot. two pole breakers (220v) usually occupy two breaker slots with each breaker on a different phase. there are tandem 220v breakers, but they are two 220v breakers in two slots and look like this, but with bridging that connect the two outboard breakers together so the combined unit protects two 220v circuits but only occupies two slots.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-by-Schneider-Electric-Homeline-2-20-Amp-Single-Pole-1-20-Amp-Two-Pole-Quad-Circuit-Breaker-HOMT2020220CP/100186179?N=bm16Z684Z684

your description of the breakers in your panel is very interesting. any chance for a few pics of what’s being described, as it seems to be counter to my understanding of electrical service panels? i’d also like to see how federal pacific addresses these issues as they unfortunately did not enjoy a particularly complimentary reputation when it came to electrical service panels:

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/fpe.aspx

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/fpe_malfunction.aspx

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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