Kreg pocket joiner device

I use quite a bit of pocket hole joinery, but not with Kreg . . . I have a cheaper knockoff. I have not seen the video you mentioned, however if the project looked easy they probably were. This type of joinery is a breeze and it quite tough. I will be upgrading to the Kreg sometime in the future.

I believe that bits may be available from LV. If not they should not be overly expensive. If you change the length of the bit the jig should be able to compensate. I have only cracked off one bit in the last 3 yrs.

Yes other screws can be used, however I find that the non-Kreg are not that much cheaper than the Kreg branded screws. Keep in mind that they do come in a couple of lengths (for various thickness of wood) and in a coarse thread (for soft wood) and fine (for hard wood).

Hope this helps.

-- The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them

You can buy all that stuff at any big box store…(now.) The bits are $20.

Pocket joinery is pretty good. There are a few quirks that you have to address when using them. The screws are the screws. You could use drywall screws….which work. But the brand named ones are really better screws. It takes alot of pocketholes to wear one out.

I have one of the simple ones and in the shop we have a pockethole machine and clamp table.

BTW, screwing into end-grain is worthless.

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist

I use both biscuits and pocket joinery. I think that the Kreg pocket joinery devices are some of the handiest and most useful joinery techniques there are. I use them with and without glue. They are mechanicallly strong without glueing and very strong with glue.

I would use the Kreg screws [coarse and fine] and the Kreg drill bit.

The pocket joinery video does make it look easy. You could do almost any joint in the video using many other techniques however. The advantage to screws is you can glue the joint, screw it together and move on. In most cases you don’t have to wait for the glue to dry. In pieces I make where I want to practice or hone a skill, or make something appear like I really spent a lot of time on it, I don’t use screws that you could find by flipping the item over. As for sharpening the bit, that won’t make a difference. The bits are available any place and are actually very good quality. The screws are reasonable. You can get various sizes for various applications with a fine or a coarse thread. They are square drive so you won’t strip a screw head ever again. You can also get various plugs to fill the holes as well. I learned a few tricks from the video included in the kit that I use in other applications as well.

-- NorthWoodsMan

I can tell you that somehow the Kreg jig was one of the first few woodworking devices I bought. Not sure how I happened on to it at that time either. It is a fantastic tool, after a little practice, it is extremely easy to use.

I’m as amateur as it gets, but I really like this jig. I’ve used it for a lot of things, not just trying to build furniture. And, it’s kind of fun.

I normallly use biscuits but I recently completed a project where the frame was small and I did not feel the joints would hold up to the abuse they might take, so I picked the small Kreg kit and it worked like a champ. Quick and easy, the butt joints I used for the frame will hold up for years to come, you can see a picture of the doors I built in my projects section. I don’t use them very often, but when I do, I know that they will work just fine.

-- "You get what you inspect, not what you expect"

Biscuits don’t really add much strength to a joint, but are great for alignment purposes such as edge gluing a table top. I dont’ use them for everything, but pocket screws are wonderful for a quick and strong joint as long as you use the right screw type and length. And, like Catspaw says, screwing into end grain is worthless.
All in all, it’s really affordable and versitile at the same time.

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC

Regarding biscuits, I know they’re not for adding strength but rather for alignment.

But, I was tearing down a plywood carcass the other day, biscuits and glue plywood edge butt joint onto plywood face. Probably about the worst joint you could think of. No dados, just a plywood edge against a plywood face, some number 20 biscuits and glue. I had to break the carcass down with a 2 lb sledge. And when I did the joints pretty uniformly tore the plywood apart rather than busting the biscuits.

I understand that a solid wood long grain to long grain glued joint is stronger than the surrounding wood and that adding biscuits does not add strength. But using biscuits for plywood to plywood adds a heck of a lot of strength.

I have the Kreg pocket rocket, which is the cheapest one, & does the same thing as the fancier ones.

I’ve built quite a few things with it, & I’m well satisfied with it.

I bought face frame screws at Grizzly, & saved a bundle.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

I have the Kreg jig and I use it anytime I can. It is easy, quick & effective. I have only had it for five months, but when I am doing any kind of joint, I will always be looking to use it when I can first before considering an alternative.

-- Rusty

One thing you MUST do when using a Kreg jig is to make sure that your wood is square.
The screws hold the pieces together so tightly that if your pieces aren’t square, neither will be your joint.

Another tip: if you are going to paint a piece and the holes will be visible, then just use a 3/8” dowel and some glue to fill in the holes. Trim them flush and away you go. Don’t spend the money for those pre cut plugs.

The first time I ever used them was on the stand for the harpsichord I built. Steady as a rock.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I have used the Kreg jig for several projects and found it to be very useful.

It is quick. No clamping needed just add some glue and assemble and keep going. And so far it is extremely strong. That being said there are a few things to keep in mind.

When using pocket holes to assemble a cabinet case for instance, you need to guard against the work shifting as you tighten the screw. You do not have any dados or rabbits to hold the pieces in position. I usually clamp them in place very firmly before I tighten the screws. The shift is worse if you use to much glue.

Also 3/4” plywood isn’t exactly 3/4” so for some joints you will need shallower pockets.

Yes you can use any pan head self tapping screw, but the Kreg ones aren’t that expensive and I like the square drive.

-- mhawkins2 - why does my wife keep parking her car in my shop :)?

Fantastic to read through these comments, guys. Thanks for all the support. The entire team at Kreg would just love to see all of these positive experiences posted here.

Anyway, I just wanted to log-on and direct the thread-starter to a link of the video he saw on TV, in case he or anyone else wanted to see it again. We’ve posted it online on our website at www.kregjig.com, and on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LnhMFNqRZ4.

If you enjoy following Kreg stuff, you might also want to check out these links:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kreg-JigR/54208550837
http://www.youtube.com/kregtoolcompany
and my personal favorite…
http://kregjig.ning.com/

If anyone has any questions or something I can help out with, I’d be glad to be of service!

Good luck, and good woodworking!
-KregRep

-- KregRep | Huxley, IA | Join the Kreg Jig Owners' Community: http://kregjig.ning.com

Someone mention using panhead screws from various sources. Definitely use them as opposed to drywall type screws or any conehead. Drywall screws won’t pull the pieces together as tightly and can split the wood you’ve drilled the holes in. The panhead stops the screw penetration and pulls the other piece tight.

Dollar for dollar it’s the best thing I’ve ever bought in terms of what you can do with it. You’ll find lots of applications beside face frames.

I’ve seen the drill bit available from sources other than the BORGs for as low as $8.

Festler if you look at the project section and see the Country Hutchs, I built them with Kreg pocket joinery. Works great and I even used pocket joinery on the Ox Cart in some places.

Nice to see the Kreg people know where to find the woodworkers of the world

-- Guy Kroll

While I love the Kreg system, I guess it’s a bit more pricey for a reason, they are much better than the competition (in my eyes). I needed a stationary pocket hole system instead of the more portable unit I have (R3) which you have to use clamps with, and not having the money to put out for the $100+ unit from Kreg (K4 or above) at the moment. Let me tell you going with the $30 General Tools pocket Jig kit may get you by, but it’s definitely NOT a Kreg quality unit. The bits aren’t as sharp, leaving the wood ragged around the pocket hole. I’d say that if you’re going to spend $20 for a new Kreg bit, then look at the Mini-Jig kit that comes with a single hole unit and drill bit. At least you know you’ll get a good bit and if you ever need a thinner jig, you’ll have it.

I’ve used different brand screws, so you don’t have to use reg, but if I’m around Lowes anyway, it’s easier for me to pay $3.50 for 100 screws than going other places to save a few cents.

-- Respect your shop tools and they will respect you - Ric

Thats alot of money for something thats made of that much plastic, and I feel the same way about the plastic jobsite saws. It’s rediculous.

I used to dowel all my face frames together. Since getting the Kreg jig, I use it on my face frames. All the joints are glued but with the screws it is a lot faster and no clamps are needed after the face frame is assembled. Also used it to glue up solid drawers fronts. I am sure there are other uses the more I use it.

God Bless
tom

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

It’s not a lot of money if it gets the job done. Pocket holes have been around a long time. Kreg just improved how it’s done. I think it’s a great tool and I use my quite a lot. I have never worn out the plastic parts or the toggle arm – nothing.

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

Hey KregRep...How about a discount for us LumberJocks looking to buy the jig…I’m looking at getting the master system, K3 I think….looks like I can use one of these in my woodworking and construction business…

-- Todd, Oak Ridge, TN, Hello my name is Todd and I'm a Toolholic, I bought my last tool 10 days, no 4 days, oh heck I bought a tool on the way here! †

I agree with just about everything said above. It is a great tool to have in your arsenal. The Kreg (or Kreg-style) screws are in my opinion so far superior to traditional wood screws that they are well worth any additional cost. When practical, I use them in other applications as well.

I can’t disagree more with whoever said (above), “Biscuits don’t really add much strength to a joint, but are great for alignment purposes such as edge gluing a table top….”. It SOUNDS so ridiculous to me I am going to start a blog to see what other LJs think about it. As far as its relevance to this blog, there can be no question about the Kreg system being faster, easier, and ample, but it is not ready to replace biscuits and I think a good biscuit joint is much stronger because it involves a lot more surface area in the joint.

Someone else above claims, “I know they’re not for adding strength but rather for alignment”. But then he continues to write providing evidence in direct contradiction to what he had just written, “But, I was tearing down a plywood carcass the other day, biscuits and glue plywood edge butt joint onto plywood face. Probably about the worst joint you could think of. No dados, just a plywood edge against a plywood face, some number 20 biscuits and glue. I had to break the carcass down with a 2 lb sledge. And when I did the joints pretty uniformly tore the plywood apart rather than busting the biscuits.”

Do you think this guy was just trying to nicely tell the other he didn’t know what he was talking about? That is what I think from my woodworking adventures.

-- Cuz

Frankly Cuz, I’m somewhat taken aback by the vociferous tone of your comments, and the totally un-needed comment about they guy “not knowing what he was talking about.”

When biscuits started showing up, and Norm Abrams went absolutely NUTS over using them, the were the “hot item.” Today, after daily reading a half dozen forums for over 6 years, the prevailing wisdom is that they ARE just useful for alignment, not to even mention the issues with biscuits telegraphing thru the wood.

Adding strength to the joint? Not really. If you’re talking about vertical pressure on the parting line, what stregth could a small insert of softwood biscuits provide? If you’re talking about hooking up oxcarts to each piece of the joint and having them try to pull it apart, I imagine the biscuits would provide a millisecond more time before they’re able to pull it apart.

With todays adhesives, the strength of a well prepared plain butt joint of two boards is stronger than the wood itself. I know because I’ve personally tested the theory by trying to beat 2 pieces apart, and the wood always gives first. I’ve never had a just plain glue joint fail. If it does, you did something wrong.

The “extra gluing surface” a biscuit provides is sitting INSIDE of the two pieces and that extra surface has little if anything to do with the joints strength.

I’m anxiously awaiting the scathing blog about how Biscuits are great for joint strength…

If someone wants to basically waste hours waiting for the glue to dry on a biscuit joint, rather than choose a pocket hole, then by all means go for it. Time is money, even if it’s not on a project that is making you money. A persons’ time is supposed to be valuable, biscuits don’t make a persons time worth as much, just because they think a joint is stronger because they used them.

Think of the time and trouble you go through just to get one cut into wood for a biscuit. In less than 1/4 the time, you can drill a pocket hole, and put in a screw, no glue needed. Joint strong and complete. You put a biscuit in, and where’s the holding power without the glue and clamping involved?

-- Respect your shop tools and they will respect you - Ric

I’ll chime in with my opinion, and it is only an opinion. I may take heat, may not. I strongly suggest the pocket screw system, whether it’s from kreg or someone else, doesn’t really matter. Personally I have a kreg pneumatic pocket boring machine. Makes the process quick and easy. I do have a few of the hand held jigs though too for use on a job site. But I wanted to stress what I use them for. I use them for cabinetry construction or general woodworking. This would be for face frame construction, attaching the carcass to the frame, making frames for wainscotting, etc. When it comes to furniture though the kreg is out the window. It is a cheap method of construction, whether it works great or not. There’s something about a screw holding a table together as opposed to a mortise and tenon that bugs the crap out of me. It seems as though the builder got lazy, thus making the table seemingly cheap. And, if you look under the table you see the holes, or the plugged holes. This type of joinery is great if it will never be seen. Obviously mechanical fasteners are just another part of making everything “production”. It goes hand in hand with cnc machines, and nail guns. Saves money, increases production, etc. But it won’t make you a better craftsman. Make your garage cabinets, kitchen cabinets, etc with this joinery. Not your chairs and tables. Pretty soon I’ll see a Maloof style rocker with ebony pocket screw plugs.
For screws, there are several companies that sell pocket screws. You don’t have to buy the expensive name brand Kreg screws. Wurth and QuickScrew are a few. Louis and Company is a good place to buy screws in bulk, but you can get them from Woodworkers Supply in bulk too, but a little more expensive. I’m pretty sure there are 100,000 other places to get pocket screws. There are things to know about the screws too. You can’t just go buy a box of screws and expect it to work perfect. There are different threads for different materials. HiLo, Course, Standard, Turbo, etc, as well as the different guages, 6 and 7 being the most popular. There are pan heads, fillister heads, and round washer heads that all work and are common for face frame construction. There are different drives, phillips, square, and combo. I use the fillister head with combo drive, 7 gauge, with HiLo threads, with a Type 17 point. The Type 17 point is a sharp slotted point that acts as drill to eliminate pre drilling. When using pocket screws you MUST use good clamping because when you screw the project together the piece is likely to pull out of flush. This is because the hole is canted. This is especially noticeable in face frame construction. Kreg offers a face frame plate clamp that can be affixed in a table to make face frame assembly easy. The accessories seem endless from kreg. It is a good company and I recommend them. I just hope that people continue to learn the traditional ways like using mortise and tenon, biscuits, dowels, whatever, even if they use pocket screws more frequent.

-- ~ Inspiring those who inspire me ~

My dad wanted to pay him for a project he asked me to build, but I did it as a gift. Finally we were at Menards and I said, I want to try this system out, but $100 is a bit of a gamble. He bought it for me. Loved it and never turn back. Have even upgraded to the foreman Kreg system for semi-production, however a bit pricey at $800.

ONE NOTE! I am not a Kreg rep however you need to use a specific screw designed for Pocket Hole Joinery. There are fine threads and coarse threads for the appropriate types of woods. Also all of true pocket screws are self tapping. The BIGGEST thing about a pocket hole screw is that the threads do not go all the way to the head of the screw. This allows the screw to pull the joint tight. A pan head screw or a drywall screw does not have that capability.

You can get screws from Fastenal, Grizzly, and Kreg. Those are the 3 that I have purchased from. I am sure there are other sources also.

Boardman – I am quite surprised and sorry that you were so offended by what I wrote. I did so without doing any research of my own and I based what I wrote solely on my own experiences and expectations. I challenged a comment stating that biscuit joints don’t add strength and that they are only for alignment purposes. I thought this wisdom was being offered as if it were common knowledge and accepted fact. I would no sooner agree with a statement like that than I would agree with the statement that all blondes are stupid and are only good for – well you know.

Well I see now that Carl left himself a little wiggle room in his comment and that it was not so definitive as I and the next blogger after Carl read into it. Carl – I humbly apologize for accusing you of not knowing what you were talking about. I hope you (and Boardman) can forgive me?

Having done my research, I am convinced that in some cases blondes can be quite intelligent and make excellent friends, wives, mothers, sister, and even woodworkers. In some cases, they may be only slightly smarter than stupid but they are none the less smarter than stupid. Personally, I don’t prefer one hair color to another so I am not going to get into a debate about which one is better here. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. If the project demands that a brunette is needed, I’ll use one. If I need a blonde for alignment and a redhead for strength, I’ll go so far as to use both of them at the same time.

Finally, allow me to retract what I wrote about a biscuit joint being much stronger because it involves more surface area. That was as ridiculous as suggesting that blondes are all are stupid! I meant to write that with no other glue surfaces or fasteners involved, it is my opinion that the holding power of a single biscuit would surpass that of a single pocket screw (without glue) solely because it involves more surface area. So if the consensus is that a biscuit itself adds an insignificant amount of additional strength to a joint (at least for with-the-grain joints), then where does that leave the pocket screw? Does it really make any difference after the glue dries? Now before I stick my foot in my mouth again, I am going to make some sawdust while I have the chance.

-- Cuz

Nice post Cuz…you got my respect.

I should say the biscuits are useful and add strength to any end grain gluing, or to joining plywood. In those 2 cases they’re a good thing.

I think pocket hole joinery (you’d be surprised how long it’s actually been around) is one of the best and fastest ways to build face frames. Like many others, after I got mine I found many alternate uses too. I think biscuits became the rage primarily due to Norm Abrams, who actually had a vested interest in promoting them, probably because of sponsorship or contributions from tool suppliers.

I’ve used them for years and really like the way they work for new construction as well as mending old furniture. I had a client ask if I could fix his heirloom 8/4” oak table top which had had 1/4 of the the top literally crack off. It had sat in a barn for about 8 years this way. I took the broken off part to my shop, put it on my jig, drilled 5 pairs of pocket holes on the cracked edge and returned to the scene of the crime. With some tite bond III, clamps and an adjustable stand, I screwed it back together using the longest kreg screws I had (2 1/2 coarse). The match was not perfect so I used a little filler after the glue dried and the owner sanded it down. You couldn’t tell where the break was and it was so solid that no matter where you tapped the tabletop, it had the same sound and rebound.
Also, if you buy the screws in quantity you save quite a bit. Bits can be gotten easily and they do last. Check out Amazon for prices. There is also a special plug cutter available that will cut the angled plugs from any species.

-- jack -- measure once, curse twice!

P.S. the kreg system is definitely cheaper than the Festool Domino thingie and seems to hold it’s own in torsion tests.

-- jack -- measure once, curse twice!

Biscuits, dowels, screws, they all have their place to be used, I don’t think one makes all the others obsolete.

i bought my kreg for faceframes.. way faster then mortise and tennon.. i wouldn’t use it where the joint was not hidden but i wouldn’t trade mine for anything.. i bought the “master” kit, if i had to do it again i would just but the 3 pieces i use. i don’t use my biscuits much anymore. i bought it for table top style glue ups, but with titebond 3 or “monkey” glue.. you don’t need additional strength,

-- It's not a sickness, i can stop buying tools anytime.

@tooldad:
“ONE NOTE! I am not a Kreg rep however you need to use a specific screw designed for Pocket Hole Joinery. There are fine threads and coarse threads for the appropriate types of woods. Also all of true pocket screws are self tapping. The BIGGEST thing about a pocket hole screw is that the threads do not go all the way to the head of the screw. This allows the screw to pull the joint tight. A pan head screw or a drywall screw does not have that capability.”

This is exactly right. Depending on the species of wood you’re using, the thickness of your material, and a few other variables, you’ll need to adjust the type of screw you’re using. We’ve just completed an online interactive chart which actually demonstrates this very well, and can help anyone who isn’t quite sure on which screw to pick:

http://www.kregtool.com/screws

-- KregRep | Huxley, IA | Join the Kreg Jig Owners' Community: http://kregjig.ning.com

if i had to start over again i would have bought a tablesaw and k3 jig. 90%of my woodworking needs would have been covered. Mcfeelys or Grizzly sell pocket hole screws.

kreg is as advertized

-- "There is a fine line between woodworker and tool collector"

Tooldad, Menard’s? You must be in Minnesota… We don’t have them out here in the warm lands. Darn. ;o)

Seriously, try AMAZON for Kreg stuff. Save lots…

-- jack -- measure once, curse twice!

After viewing the video’s and reading reviews here and elsewhere (I hadn’t come across a bad review) I am waiting for delivery of my Kreg K3 from Rockler. I need to build my first face frame cabinet. Seemed like an expensive tool for a novice to buy but I rationalized that a novice needs something simple. Hope it works out as well as expected. It also seemed easier to store when not in use than a biscuit joiner…

I really appreciate all in info consolidated on this site.

-- Al H. - small shop, small projects...

Al,

Once you get it, get it all setup and practice on several test pieces until you get it working the way it should work. It is a simple an straight forward process but setup is most important. 30-45 minutes later and you should be an expert. Then you want to buy some of the accessories … its a conspiracy!

-- //FC - Round Rock, TX - "Experience is what you get just after you need it"

Kolwdwrkr – ditto. Thanks for saving me the typing time. :-]

-- Chris

I use Kreg. I also use biscuits And sometimes mortise and tenon type joints. IMO it just depends on what you are doing and how much time you have. They all work well. I tend to use the pocket joinery for face frames. I use biscuits for edge gluing boards for panels. Mortise and tenons work good for face frames and other applications, but they are time consuming. I have never had a report of any of them coming apart. With todays glue, they all are mighty strong, but pocket joinery is the fastest.

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN