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Forum topic by Debora Cadene posted 04-25-2013 07:50 PM 872 views 1 time favorited 22 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Debora Cadene

25 posts in 549 days


04-25-2013 07:50 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

I am building two benches and a table, and trying to figure out how to square them up has me scratching my head. Since the apron of the table is not flush with the outside of the 4×4’s, I am not sure how to do it. I don’t have an extra set of hands at the moment and am not patient enough for hubby to get home, so would like to figure out how to do it myself.
The table base measures 56 1/2×34 3/4, however….I have just discovered that only one of the 4×4’s are square. who the heck decided that the actual measurements weren’t going to be the same as what it says it is. I never thought to measure the 4×4’s either. So some of them are 1/16 out and one is 1/8th out. So both lengths are the same for the table base, but the widths are 3/16 different. Its an outside farmhouse table…really, does it matter about the 3/16ths??? probably not, because there will be an over hang on the table. The measurements for this table are odd, not that I look at them, but I was given a cut list and so far have been following it. I have not cut any boards for the top though and mabey its a good thing…I can better plan out the cuts according to the table base.
Anyhow….here are a couple of pictures and yes, I am doing it in my living room. I figure I’m the one that has to clean it anyhow…so I can make the mess. At least I did all the cutting outside this time. The chop saw makes a heck of a mess indoors :)

This is the table base

!https://s3.amazonaws.com/lumberjocks.com/mlttm5g.jpg!

And here is the corner showing the apron.


22 replies so far

View Earlextech's profile

Earlextech

994 posts in 1378 days


#1 posted 04-25-2013 08:04 PM

Measure from one corner diagonally to the other corner(top left to bottom right). Now measure from another corner diagonally to the other corner(top right to bottom left). When your measurements are the same, it is square.

-- Sam Hamory - The project is never finished until its "finished"!

View chrisstef's profile

chrisstef

11126 posts in 1694 days


#2 posted 04-25-2013 08:06 PM

If youre having trouble making it square you can use a little geometry to help. Id start by marking the center point of your 4×4. The measure 3’ across one apron and 4’ across the other apron, then if you connect the two end point and it reads 5’ you are square. A2 + B2 = C2 (the 2 meaning squared). If its just short or just long of 5’ adjust until you find it to be exactly 5’.

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

View widdle's profile

widdle

1452 posts in 1687 days


#3 posted 04-25-2013 08:33 PM

I would not worry about the 4x’s not being square at this point…you could try..cutting some 2x or 1x the same dimensions as the apron, and clamp those temporarily at the bottom of the legs, soo things arent wiggling ..and than measure outside to outside of 4x’s in an x ..What your gonna see when done is the reveal from outside of 4×4 to the table edge..all that counts really..

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1996 posts in 964 days


#4 posted 04-25-2013 08:52 PM

+1 Earlextech...measuring diagonals

+1 chrisstef.....pythagorean theorem

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Debora Cadene's profile

Debora Cadene

25 posts in 549 days


#5 posted 04-25-2013 08:56 PM

I am trying to measure corner to corner and I’m out by 1/2” to 1” I am pushing on the corners a little to get both sides close, but am still out. Plus the dang tape measure might not be in the right spot all the time either. I may have to bite the bullet and wait for the Mister to come back and have the extra hands, unless there is a better way then pushing on the corners…? Wish I had a ratchet strap that would stretch from corner to corner…

When I do get it “close” I was thinking of putting 2×2’s crossways down the length of the table…good idea or is there a better one. and if I do go with the 2×2’s…do I start at an end or middle?
You all are gonna regret accepting my membership with all these questions…

View Debora Cadene's profile

Debora Cadene

25 posts in 549 days


#6 posted 04-25-2013 08:57 PM

I have to say, I don’t get the geometry thing though….

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

5080 posts in 1265 days


#7 posted 04-25-2013 09:04 PM

“You all are gonna regret accepting my membership with all these questions…”

You couldn’t be more wrong.

Lesson learned. If it was mine, I’d square up a top and install it.
Top down, apron on top, adjust so it’s equal on all sides, then attach.

Use something like in the picture for top movement.

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1996 posts in 964 days


#8 posted 04-25-2013 09:05 PM

If you have a bar or pipe clamp you could place it on the diagonal that is the longest and apply light pressure to bring in to square…if it is off a 1/2” then you split it in half…..in other words it needs to move a 1/4” with light clamp pressure … that diagonal measurement will shorten 1/4” while the other diagonal measurement will lengthen 1/4”

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View OnlyJustME's profile

OnlyJustME

1562 posts in 1065 days


#9 posted 04-25-2013 09:31 PM

I think Waho has the best solution. Since the top is going to over hang the aprons no one will see if the frame is out of square just a bit. Build up your top square, lay it face down on the floor, flip the base frame over on top of it, then even out the over hang on all sides and attach it with fasteners that allow for the wood movement.

Oh and no way you can ask too many questions on this web site. :)

-- In the end, when your life flashes before your eyes, will you like what you see?

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

2594 posts in 1039 days


#10 posted 04-25-2013 09:55 PM

I wouldn’t worry about 3/16” on a rustic table. Just put the top on.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Debora Cadene's profile

Debora Cadene

25 posts in 549 days


#11 posted 04-26-2013 01:16 PM

What is this bar or pipe clamp you speak of???

I realize I am over thinking this whole process and have been told so from the Mister. He said the same as a couple of you guys…just flip it over and crew it down. Nobody’s gonna see it, or care.
I just can’t do it. I am not OCD…at least I don’t think so, but I NEED to get it somewhat square, put some corner brackets in and/or some 2×2 cross ways to keep it square….. THEN I’d be happy to flip it over and fasten it down. He’s just shakin his head!!

bear with me folks!!

View OnlyJustME's profile

OnlyJustME

1562 posts in 1065 days


#12 posted 04-26-2013 02:14 PM

uummm . . . . . . . . . i think that is the definition of OCD :)
Put 2×2 diagonals across the corners. if the angle cut is definitely 45 then if you measure equally in each direction from the corner and screw them in it will pull it square.

-- In the end, when your life flashes before your eyes, will you like what you see?

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15706 posts in 2906 days


#13 posted 04-26-2013 03:07 PM

OnlyJustMe took my answer, only I would use a 2×4, horizontally, to give you more mating surface to the apron.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

5080 posts in 1265 days


#14 posted 04-26-2013 03:36 PM

Here ya go

View ShaneA's profile

ShaneA

5348 posts in 1286 days


#15 posted 04-26-2013 03:42 PM

You will have an opportunity to bring it into square when attaching the top. As mentioned above, with the table upside down, and the legs sticking into the air, get the best corner to corner measurements you can. Determine which way you need to apply the clampling pressure diagonally with the aforementioned clamp. Clamp it square, attach top. The one thing to watch out for is in clamping it square, is introducing a wobble where all the legs don’t touch the ground at the same time. Once the top is attached turn it over and check for wobble on a flat surface. In my opinion, having the table stable to the ground will be more important than having it square in this case.

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