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Forum topic by RussellAP posted 367 days ago 768 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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RussellAP

2895 posts in 787 days


367 days ago

Please don’t comment on this thread unless you know about this problem.

When you turn web blanks, you have to dry them. If by chance you don’t dry them all the way, poly tends to turn gray and look horrible.
I wonder for wood that takes a long time to dry, is it possible to just use bees wax and mineral oil for a finish because it’s breathable. Will the last 20% or so of moisture dry out through that finish?

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.


14 replies so far

View TerryDowning's profile

TerryDowning

843 posts in 618 days


#1 posted 367 days ago

don’t apply finish until dry.

Be patient.

-- - Terry

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3423 posts in 2164 days


#2 posted 367 days ago

+1 on Terry’s comment.

Poly is a film finish which essentially seals the wood. Bees wax, to a lesser degree, acts much the same way though it will dry in time. The problem is, the drying process may introduce cracking or checking.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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RussellAP

2895 posts in 787 days


#3 posted 367 days ago

Gerry, I have a nice walnut bowl which was fairly dry when I turned it. I soaked it in conditioner for several days before I put it in the kiln. I took it out after about 4 days and turned it out, sanding to 600g then used EEE on it. and got a nice shine. I sanded the inside, but when I took it off the chuck and brought it to the bench I noticed some darker spots on the inside, which I take to be moisture escaping. So now it’s back in the kiln on the 70-80 degree shelf. This is the third day and the dark marks are not as many. Tomorrow I’ll sand the inside again and let it sit and see if those dark spot come back.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View doubleDD's profile (online now)

doubleDD

2033 posts in 544 days


#4 posted 367 days ago

Russell, you need to let them dry well before finishing, if not the results are warps,cracks, and not a good finish. I would say invest in a moisture meter and don’t complete the finish turning or the finish till the moisture is 8% or less. A trick I have found when pushing to get a turned project done is to cut a little off at a time each day. It will dry out a lot faster and turn out a lot nicer. 98% of my turned projects are from logs, freshly cut to a few years old and they have a mind of their own.

-- --Dave-- When you run out of ideas, start building your dreams

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

855 posts in 635 days


#5 posted 367 days ago

Russell, hard to answer your question on those spots in your bowl without pictures. As you turn wood dries, expose to air or kiln dries some more. From your description could have torn end grain, reaction wood or even wood staining so may not be a moisture problem. Could also have sanding scratches from a coarser grit not totally removed. Or wood conditioner & poly not getting along.

Torn end grain; some parts of a tree or piece of wood defy whatever tool you use. So keep tools sharp and take light final cuts.

Reaction wood (hardwoods) comes from irregular wood grain, a tree received damage at some point in it’s life, grew up bent, or bent limb. Normally reaction wood shows up a couple spots near bottom or on sides of bowls. Not sure can turn or sand away those spots completely.

Staining comes from insects, or bacteria. I learn to live with it, not into bleaching wood.

You do not say whether using oil or waterborne poly. Takes more than a day or two for either oil or waterborne poly to fully cure. Bet if stop using that conditioner appearance will improve. Suspect conditioner reason for gray hue, go back and read instructions and warnings.

If want a food safe finish MO & BW’s great if have good surface.

I bought a General pin moisture meter at Lowes few years back when it was darling of the message boards and only cost $10. Well price is over $30 now but still worth your attention.

-- Bill

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RussellAP

2895 posts in 787 days


#6 posted 367 days ago

Bill, I can tell it’s moisture because it looks like a wet spot up close and it moves. If I sand the wet spots out, it looks like nice sanded walnut, but after a couple minutes the moisture will seep causing some elongated tiny streaks. The outside is waxed and looks nice, it’s just the inside of the bowl that I left unfinished. I’ve had a couple do this on the inside corner to one degree or another where the wood is naturally left thicker when you make a bowl.
I may just boil the bowl after it’s turned to dry it out.
I’m impatient.

I have art galleries wanting me to drop off 6 bowls…....I don’t have 6 bowls I would put in an art gallery….yet.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3423 posts in 2164 days


#7 posted 366 days ago

Russell … This may not help on this bowl (or may not help at all!), but one of the mentors in my old turning club soaks rough-turned bowls overnight in denatured alcohol. He dries the for a couple of days, checks them with a moisture meter, and when they get down to between 8% and 10% finish-turns them.

Several years ago, I invested in a moisture meter (Lignomat). I was building living room and family room furniture at the time, and most of the rough sawn lumber came from Amish mills where they don’t dry in a kiln. There is nothing wrong with air-dried lumber, but you can get inconsistent results. The meter helped me avoid using some stock that had way too much moisture (some of it is still on the lumber rack in my storage room). Before I start turning a blank, I check the moisture content. Anything over 12% I treat as wet wood and rough-turn/bag accordingly.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View moke's profile

moke

442 posts in 1277 days


#8 posted 366 days ago

Russell,
I have several friends with homemade drying kilns. No one I know drys for less than a month. Are you sure they are dry all the way through?

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2895 posts in 787 days


#9 posted 366 days ago

Gerry, I think the best thing for me to do is to turn dry. Some woods like box elder and maybe poplars and other softer woods I can handle wet. The time involved is just too much. I have two galleries wanting about 10 items and I simply haven’t got them. I can do about 7 until these new bowls dry.
Can you link me to that meter?

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

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RussellAP

2895 posts in 787 days


#10 posted 366 days ago

Moke, my kiln has much drier air than the shop and not much more heat than the shop does. 60 – 80 degree most of the time. The kiln moves a volume of air slowly which take moisture out of the wood. Heat will warp bowls so when I say kiln, it’s not like most kilns that use heat along with air flow. Bowls are just strange, you never know what you got till you turn it and let it dry out. Some that fling water on the lathe dry like ceramic and others you think are stable will twist and crack over night. I can handle the cracks with inlays, but the twists bother me. You just can’t do anything with a twisted bowl except put them in a climate controlled room and hope they relax somewhat.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3423 posts in 2164 days


#11 posted 366 days ago

Russell—It is the ’Mini-Ligno E/D’ ...
http://www.lignomatusa.com/MoistureMeter/moisture_pin_meters_mini.ED.htm

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1079 posts in 1264 days


#12 posted 366 days ago

Russell – I just had a very frustrating time the last three days – DO NOT – put poly on aromatic red cedar ! It will never dry. I think it’s the oil (?) in the cedar. Sealers, such as lacquer or dewaxed shellac, will not completely seal out the oil vapors, resulting in slightly tacky poly. I’ve discovered lacquer thinner will remove the poly. The only problem with sealers on red part, there must be a wet edge during application, or the red color will be splotchy. It’s unbelievable how quick dry cedar will absorb sealers! I seal the red first – after learning the hard way and having to resand to remove the splotches. My avatar is red cedar – the same one that slammed me in the back of the hand on the lathe. Some learning experiences are a real pain in patootie!

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

855 posts in 635 days


#13 posted 366 days ago

Kind of remember you talking about using Pentacryl; is that what you are calling conditioner? You need to wipe down the surface with mineral spirits or their product called Solvitol before applying a finish.
While Pentacryl designed to be used for wet wood still takes awhile for both wood and product to dry before applying a finish. Instructions kind of vague on exactly how long.

Even after reading MSDS have no idea what is in Pentacryl or Solvitol. I am bothered seeing words like Siliconized Polymers, Paraffins on Pentacryl MSDS. Feel same for product called CedarCide for same reason.

http://www.cedarcidestore.com/preservatives.html

You might check out firewood cutters and tree trimmers in your area for low cost wood you can rough turn and set aside to dry. Some species ready to finish turn in 3 to 6 months and even sooner if using your kiln.

Supposed to wipe down cedar with acetone before applying finish. Even doing that had oil in bottom of bowl couple years later.

-- Bill

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1079 posts in 1264 days


#14 posted 366 days ago

Thanks Bill for the acetone info. I usually wipe down oily wood with acetone before applying a finish, just didn’t think about it with the cedar, as was only guessing in my statement above. Never had a problem with shellac or Deft wood sealer on red cedar.

Edit: Lacquer will remove Minwax wipe-on poly, don’t know about any other polys.

Russell: I rarely dry wood before I turn it. I turn it wet, finish the outside, apply Watco natural oil, then turn the inside and do the same. I’ve not had a problem with cracking or warping – yet. Learned to do it this way at one of our turning meetings.

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

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