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Desk restoration, will biscuits hold this, if not how do I join them?

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Forum topic by Rick M. posted 464 days ago 752 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Rick M.

3747 posts in 963 days


464 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: question jig restoration

I’ve been restoring a roll top desk built by my uncle in HS shop class. The end panels that held the tambour were put on with screws but I didn’t want to tear the desk apart to put in more screws so had planned to use dowels. Despite being super careful the dowel holes don’t line up so I need a plan B.

1) Use #20 biscuits, easy, quick, not sure if they are strong enough.
2) Homemade dowel jig, basically a board with a series of holes, clamp it down and drill but dowels are fussy and even a tiny bit off and they will not line up (as I’ve already learned).
3) Tear everything apart and use screws again.
4) Use pocket hole screws and plug the holes. Quick and easy, should be strong but the plugs will be somewhat visible. This wouldn’t be terrible, the desk was far from fine furniture and is made of 3 or 4 different species of wood.
5) Other ideas?

I cut a biscuit in half to give me an idea of how much will be holding.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|


14 replies so far

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

2334 posts in 2325 days


#1 posted 464 days ago

I would use dowel centers. Basically drill one side, put these in the holds, line up the panel as you want it, and then give a couple whacks and it will basically “centerpunch” the other board to line up.

Works awesome for things like table leaves and lining up chair legs and arm holes.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

3747 posts in 963 days


#2 posted 464 days ago

Dowel centers would help though I was hoping not to have to buy anything as I never use dowels in my own projects.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1109 posts in 2453 days


#3 posted 464 days ago

Rick, I think you would be fine, modern day adhesives are pretty strong,

View Hammerthumb's profile

Hammerthumb

1100 posts in 558 days


#4 posted 464 days ago

Rick – I agree with Dr. Dirt. I dont think the biscuits will have the holding power that you would need for this joint. If you already have holes drilled that do not line up, fill them with dowels and redrill. You can also make a template from the tambor side using the dowel centers on a scrap piece of wood, drilling it out and using it for a guide on the top. Let me know how you make out.

-- Paul, Las Vegas

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

2408 posts in 934 days


#5 posted 464 days ago

I think loose tenons would be the answer here.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View huff's profile

huff

2765 posts in 1868 days


#6 posted 464 days ago

Rick,

Biscuits should work fine. Your screws/dowels or biscuits will be used more for alignment then actual structual strength ( unless you plan on picking the whole desk up by the panels.)

When the very top is mounted and the back is installed, this will keep it from racking or at least as much as the original screws or dowels.

#20 buiscuts and a good clean glue joint should hold fine.

-- John @ http://www.thehuffordfurnituregroup.com

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

3747 posts in 963 days


#7 posted 464 days ago

After stepping away for a bit I went back and used dowels. I was just extra, extra, careful drilling new holes and they lined up fine. Thanks for the help. One of these days I should pick up a set of dowel centers.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View huff's profile

huff

2765 posts in 1868 days


#8 posted 464 days ago

BTW; Some of the large antique roll top desks, the whole top section simply lifts off and they used dowels for alignment.

-- John @ http://www.thehuffordfurnituregroup.com

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3516 posts in 1950 days


#9 posted 464 days ago

For the table top I built I used loose tenons … home made ones out of 1/4” plywood ... this was in 1976 and commercial loose tenons were not available (I don’t believe biscuit were either).

I did not have a doweling jig and thought that three 1-1/2” wide 2” long plywood tenons were better than dowels.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

3747 posts in 963 days


#10 posted 464 days ago

I didn’t know that Huff, interesting. This is a child’s size and I’d be afraid to do that.
Yeah, if I were building it from scratch I would use tenons.

The desk is interesting because it was obviously made from scraps, I’ve identified oak, maple, cherry and even pressboard. But the overall construction was quality, almost factory, but unfortunately it had a very hard life going through several kids before my Mom got it then it sat in a hot attic for 10 years, then in a dank basement for 10 years, then in the back of my shop for 15 years. By the time I started repairs it was in pieces. My mom said my uncle made it in HS but he says he didn’t; but my mom never forgot anything – and I mean never, so I take her word on it.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View held105mp's profile

held105mp

3 posts in 466 days


#11 posted 463 days ago

Pocket screws by far. Its not cheating. Noone will know except you.

View remdds's profile

remdds

15 posts in 1208 days


#12 posted 463 days ago

I’ve seen where someone pared the offending dowel a bit and it dropped right to place.
Are you off by a mile? Might be worth a try.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1609 posts in 1076 days


#13 posted 463 days ago

I’m on the side of the biscuits. They would be plenty for this….and they help more than many will admit. The only thing I’m unsure of is whether they will be easier to get properly aligned than the dowels…but if ouy can they will be plenty strong.

-- I long for the days when Coke was a cola, and a joint was a bad place to be (Merle Haggard)

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

3747 posts in 963 days


#14 posted 463 days ago

After looking at this for another day I’ve decided this one time my mom must have been wrong, there is no way my uncle built this in HS and I suspect it really is factory made from scraps, difficult as that is to believe. I considered it being a mish-mash but the parts fit together too well, it must have been made this way. On the bottom of a pencil tray that may or may not be original to the desk (I can’t tell) was a Japan sticker. The pencil tray may not be original or the sticker might have been added by a kid. The desk is a conundrum.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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