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Cyclone Dust collection

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Forum topic by KCConst posted 519 days ago 1095 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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KCConst

29 posts in 525 days


519 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: question dust collection

I’m considering dust collection in my shop and may have an opportunity to buy a cyclone type system but noticed it only has a 1-1/2 HP 1PH motor. Most of these systems seem to have considerably larger motors. I know there are tons of proponents of different systems here so I didn’t mention any brands. It is an older (5-10 years old) system in relatively good condition. Am I wasting my time looking at an underpowered system or is there a flow meter I might be able to use to see what exactly the result of the system is? Be kind Now.. I’m new here..

-- "Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do" Wooden


12 replies so far

View DouginVa's profile

DouginVa

486 posts in 900 days


#1 posted 519 days ago

Fine Woodworking has a good article on dust collection motor strength. Look it up. I had the same concerns about motor size but If memory serves me correctly they (FWW) said 1 1/2 HP motors do a very good job. Maybe commercial/industrial systems require a larger motor but that should be adequate for the home workshop.

-- Just a man with his chisel.........

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1717 posts in 1120 days


#2 posted 519 days ago

Opinions vary widely on this, and your opinion will be what you want to see with your DC. The Pentz data would say that for capturing the finest particles (most injurious to your health) you need maximum at the tool….1000 CFM. You will not see that from any 1.5HP collector. Adding a cyclone only reduces the air flow (that’s why cyclones usually have bigger motors/impellers) so the 1.5 HP looses ground with one compared to the larger units. That said, the 1.5 HP will certainly capture most of the larger stuff, and if that’s what you seek you should be quite happy. As for the flow meter, some guys use an anemometer (wind meter) to measure airflow but the scientific way to do it would be with a vacuum/pressure guage (Magnehelic is one name brand) equipped with a pitot tube. But remember this: even a world class DC system isn’t going to capture every spec of dust in your shop, there are too many operations that skip the dc system (routing, for one) that also puts dust in the air. So, recommendations? Decide what performance you’re after in the DC then decide if the 1.5 HP is enough. If you want to catch the big stuff it should work, if you want to catch everything you’ll need a larger unit, along with an ambient air cleaner (ceiling filter). Don’t forget the stuff I mentioned about opinions; they will all be different, and all correct…they just measure against different criteria and you’ll need to fit yours into that spectrum.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, we sent 'em to Washington.

View crank49's profile

crank49

3371 posts in 1598 days


#3 posted 518 days ago

I don’t know who appointed Bill Pentz the “Dust Collecting God” around here, or maybe he just gets misquoted a lot, but you can not just flat out say any one needs at least 1000 CFM at the tool to capture the finest dust particles. That is just wrong on so many levels you need to be in an elevator to say it.
1.- Fine particles are easier to capture and transport than big or heavy ones.
2.- The CFM required at the tool depends on the tool, and hood design dictates the CFM required.
3.- The hood design has to account for the velocity and mass of the dust particles and the CFM and Static pressure available in the collector system has to generate the capture velocity needed to capture the dust being generated.
4.- The system CFM has to match the requirements of the hood.. A well designed, close capture hood can capture more dust with less CFM but might require more inches of static pressure, while a large side draft hood might need a very large CFM but have very low pressure requirements.
Bottom Line: There is NO single answer.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1717 posts in 1120 days


#4 posted 518 days ago

I’m not sure anyone appointed him”dc god”. but I buy into all his data. Apparently you do not, and that is those various opinions I mentioned earlier. I do (sort of) agree with 2 of your points: the is no single answer, and (I turned this around) the dust hood should match the CFM requirements. If we used factory ports on almost anything we’d never catch a single particle of anything. But then again, that is just my opinion…..

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, we sent 'em to Washington.

View dpjeansonne's profile

dpjeansonne

70 posts in 1840 days


#5 posted 518 days ago

I agree that Pentz is not God but I don’t think he feels that way. He is respected and has strong opinions as most of us do, and his are from his personal situation. Anyway he has some very good information that can be used to design a system for each individual’s needs. Most will agree you must focus on the collection point at the tool.
The problem I see is that is admiral but very difficult to accomplish so we compensate with as large a system as you can afford. I had a 1hp collector and upgraded to 1.5hp and still could not collect fine dust (like I wanted) on my drum sander. I ended up going to a 3hp cyclone with 6 inch ducts and the improvements are significant. I still have to focus on tool hoods, short runs, minimize flex hose, etc. Sawdust chips are easier in my opinion – fine dust not so.

Bottom line is depends on your situation, tools, duct runs, etc., and want you expect to get.

-- Cajun Don, Louisiana

View clafollett's profile

clafollett

114 posts in 1282 days


#6 posted 518 days ago

1.5 HP may be enough depending a number of factors including how short your run is, how many tools do you have hooked up, how big your ports are at the tool, what type of ducting you run, etc. For instance, no matter how hard you try, I doubt you will get 1000 CFM if you port size on your tool is 2.5” such as the one on my Porter Cable table saw.

I’ve recently ordered Grizzly’s G0703P after reading several good reviews. Unfortunately, UPS has lost it and I’m still waiting to get this resolved or else I could tell you first hand.

Everyone who owns one has good things to say about it. Here is an thread I found while researching which may be of interest: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/29403

-- Don't mind me, I'm just soaking up knowledge

View darthford's profile

darthford

532 posts in 551 days


#7 posted 518 days ago

Cal I’m firing up my G0703 tomorrow and will report back, I’m finishing assembly tonight. I’m keeping the Grizzly mobile moving it to each machine as needed, I’m running 5” hose to the machine.

View ellen35's profile

ellen35

2566 posts in 2059 days


#8 posted 518 days ago

I have the G0703 and it is a great machine. I have a 25’ (yes, that is correct 25 FEET) hose on it at 5” flange and the thing sucks everything in it’s path… including some sandpaper pads I had on the workbench that came too close to it’s mouth! I don’t use 25” of hose except to vacuum the shop floor. I am very impressed with this unit and have had it about a month now. I had a HF with a cyclone and this far outperforms that one. The only “con” is that it is noisier than I would like it… but then again, I’d like to hear Mozart on the radio above the DC!!
I am also using 40 gal 3 mil bags from the Borg instead of the expensive ones from Grizzly.
Ellen

-- "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Voltaire

View darthford's profile

darthford

532 posts in 551 days


#9 posted 518 days ago

Ellen have you tried the muffler Grizzly sells to cut down on the noise? I’m thinking about giving one of those a try.

View clafollett's profile

clafollett

114 posts in 1282 days


#10 posted 517 days ago

Thanks darth! I would also be interested in hearing (pun intended) if the muffler makes a difference. I’ve not researched them but I wonder if they would impact performance, just like most mufflers do to a auto engine.

-- Don't mind me, I'm just soaking up knowledge

View ellen35's profile

ellen35

2566 posts in 2059 days


#11 posted 517 days ago

I don’t think the muffler fits that particular machine. If anyone else knows that it does… please let me know!

-- "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Voltaire

View TryAgain's profile

TryAgain

7 posts in 1773 days


#12 posted 517 days ago

Here are some thoughts on checking out that collector:
1. Examine inside and outside of the filter element looking for rips/tears/abrasion/built up dust coating
2. Examine impeller for condition and diameter. Bigger diameter generally means more CFM/pressure
3. Get a clamp-on current meter and measure current and compare with nameplate current. This will give you some confidence that the motor is ok (if measured and nameplate current are close) and let you know what amperage your workshop circuit must be to handle the dust collector. Run the collector with about 10’ of duct hooked up to it to mimic the load you’ll have when operating in your workshop plus to avoid the motor running with too little resistance. Max current will be at least pressure resistance.
4. Take a couple of buckets of sawdust and chips with you and suck ‘em up at the end of your 10’ hose to get a sense of suction CFM/suction pressure
5. Listen … how loud? steady sound? rattles? Block off the inlet to the 10’ hose and listen to motor.
6. Take some incense sticks with you and while the collector is running, move the lit incense stick over the flow path, impeller housing, filter housing, filter elements, etc looking for visible air leaks.
7. Is it a name brand that you can still get parts if needed?

If these kinds of checks show good results, and if you believe it to provide enough suction/CFM based on your crude loading tests, then you might want to consider this dust collector for a modest price at 10 years old.

Tom

-- Tom

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