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Table saw maker not to blame for man slicing his fingers

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Forum topic by Betsy posted 66 days ago 810 views 0 times favorited 29 replies Add to Favorites
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Betsy

1883 posts in 432 days


66 days ago

Got this at work (work in a law office)

This is a jury verdict out of New York. Jury got it right.

“A jury declined to award damages to a man who lost parts of two fingers in an accident involving a table saw. The plaintiff, Francisco Morales, sued the saw’s manufacturer and an alleged retailer of the tool, claiming that the tool was unsafe because its blade guard was easily removable. The guard was not in place at the time of the incident, and Morales sustained amputations of four fingers while attempting to guide a piece of wood across the blade. Two of the fingers were reattached later. The defendants prevailed by arguing that the guard had to be removable, to allow certain types of cuts, and that Morales should have used a safer, accepted method of guiding the wood across the saw — one that would have kept his hands out of harm’s way.”

Morales v. Delta International Machine Corp.

-- Betsy - GO BUCKS!

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Karson

13584 posts in 937 days


66 days ago

Great. A jury that is alive and kicking

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

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gusthehonky

118 posts in 278 days


66 days ago

This is a prime example of a frivolous law suit. Hope he has to pay all legal fees for defendant and all court costs.

-- Ciao, gth.

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CharlieM1958

4580 posts in 755 days


66 days ago

The guy should have to pay Delta’s legal expenses.

That’s one of the problems with the system… people sue because they don’t have much to lose, and they know they just might hit the jackpot.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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lew

1750 posts in 292 days


66 days ago

Is that the way today!

No matter what happens to you and how carelessly you act- it’s always the fault of someone else. Thank goodness juries are beginning to realize that people have to be responsible for their own actions.

Thanks, Betsy.

Lew

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Christopher

199 posts in 457 days


65 days ago

I wish people would realize what reasonable doubt means as well.

-- Sometimes when I am building something and it is out of square, I just bend my square.

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mattm

21 posts in 183 days


65 days ago

Huh, interesting. Makes me wonder about what happened before the trial. Usually in a case like this the defendant will just try to settle beforehand, to avoid the cost of a trial. I wonder if this guy rejected whatever they offered because he thought he’d be able win more at trial.

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MsDebbieP

12282 posts in 697 days


65 days ago

I had a feeling that our society was starting to change and this type of lawsuit was going to become part of our past. Here is my proof—one step at a time, the people are saying “no more”. Thanks for sharing!

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

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sIKE

605 posts in 290 days


65 days ago

Woohoo, I am glad common sense prevailed here!

-- //FC - Round Rock, TX - "Experience is what you get just after you need it"

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Yettiman

126 posts in 274 days


65 days ago

At last a verdict for common sense. At last the law gives no credence to the basic pricinple, that people owe themselves duty of care rather than demanding compensation for their own stupidity. I feel sorry for the chap who lost his fingers, but it was his fault not the saw design.

-- Keep your tools sharp, your mind sharper and the coffee hot

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BeechPilotBarry

410 posts in 239 days


65 days ago

Maybe there’s hope for our legal system after all!

-- - Real men read directions

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Al Killian

210 posts in 290 days


46 days ago

Maybe there’s hope for our legal system after all!

—-
I wil hold my tounge on this one. Yes that type of case is running our system to much. No back to hiding from the dog. :)

View Betsy's profile

Betsy

1883 posts in 432 days


46 days ago

It was certainly interesting to see this case come up. I would like to have known what the pre-trial offers/demands were as well. It could be that Delta offered nothing. A lot of defendants are finally saying that they would rather take their chances at trial as opposed to saving money on legal fees by settling before trial. In other words, some defendants are saying, “I know if I settle now, even though we are not wrong, it will cost me less” but “if I take it to trial it may cost me more in legal fees but I have a good chance of winning the moral victory.” As I recall, Disney did this a number of years ago and actually got a reputation for not settling and taking every case to trial. It soon found itself with a lot less claims. When the plaintiff’s lawyers could not make a good buck on taking cases that would settle for very little effort, it was no longer profitable to take those little cases. So now when you see a case against Disney – you know there is probably some merit to it. Not that every case is a bad mark against Disney – just that a lawyer thinks he’s got a good chance of winning. There are several other corporations that are taking this hard line. Maybe Delta is one of them. A lawyer is not going to take a case on unless he/she thinks they will win – because they don’t make money unless they win. They make more money by settling without going to trial. Going to trial is a very expensive and risky proposition. It can be lucrative, but it’s expensive and risky all the same.
I’m rambling – sorry.

Long and short though – use your safety devices and if you loose a finger—- don’t blame the saw.

-- Betsy - GO BUCKS!

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woodchips

185 posts in 501 days


46 days ago

wow when i first read this i thought to myself, “hey wait a minute that’s like saying the gun manufacturer is responsible for me shooting myself in the foot because they designed the gun to hold bullets”.

thank goodness for a jury that used some common sense. hopefully next time the guy will use featherboards and a pushstick or some sort.

~isaac

-- Isaac, "It's no coincidence that Jesus was a lumberjock too"

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NY_Rocking_Chairs

277 posts in 134 days


46 days ago

Um, there are people suing gun manufacturers for shooting deaths and violence.

Then there is this one.

Just do a google on gun manufacturer law suits and prepare to be amazed.

-- Rich, WNY, www.nyrockingchairs.com

View mart's profile

mart

77 posts in 161 days


29 days ago

The thought of suing someone when I lost my left middle finger tip (back to the knuckel) to a table saw, never crossed my mind. I was using my employer’s saw (on my own time) when the accident happened. My fault, my error and my responsibilty. I sure do miss that finger tip though. I used to type 60 wpm, now about 15-20. Eight years later I lost my left thumb tip letting down my 35 hp boat motor. I was holding the motor forward with my right hand and manipulating the motor lock down lever with my left hand. The wake from another boat caused me to loose my hold with my right hand and the moter pivoted down catching my thumb tip between the motor and the transom mount. It cleanly sheared about 3/8” off my thumb. I still didn’t consider suing anyone. I sure felt stupid and have endured endless jokes about my digitary shortcomings. I actually enjoy the jokes but would never consider going before a jury to ask for money for my own stupidity.

Mart

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Bob42

146 posts in 327 days


29 days ago

I am a New Yorker born and raised here, and glad to see that their are still some good jury”s here. I thought they all left. We have to be accountable for the things we do. You can’t get a free ride when you screw up.
I am thinking of going to N. Carolina soon. In a couple of years. My wife is really starting to like the idea.

-- Bob K. East Northport, NY

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brianinpa

941 posts in 260 days


29 days ago

This jury got it right. I wonder if the verdict would have been the same on the West Coast?

-- Brian, Lebanon PA, If you aren’t having fun doing it, find something else to do.

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Steve2

45 posts in 107 days


29 days ago

Don’t get too excited yet folks – while we all regret the injury and side with Delta, the suit also named the employer who does have some degree of responsibility of training diligence and safe operations. The report above came from the defendants (employer) and Marinez says he is appealing.

-- Regards, Steve2

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christopheralan

184 posts in 257 days


18 days ago

Can I sue Mother Nature for putting splinters in wood?

-- christopheralan http://www.projectwoodworks.com

View Bob #2's profile

Bob #2

2081 posts in 558 days


18 days ago

I don’t know the complete circumstances but my question is :
Why would it be the employers responsibility to determine the training of the employee other than to provide adequate safety training?

I seems like we may now need a third party validator to decide if a worker qualifies for the task(s) required.
In addition, we need a third party validator to determine if the task is a safe one.
The first requirement has traditionally been handled by the trade schools and the unions.
The second by OSHA etc.
I can only see the employer being responsible if he hires people out of that mandate.
I know that often folks are hired on the strength of their résumés but is that a valid reference if an injury occurs?

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

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gusthehonky

118 posts in 278 days


18 days ago

This a tough one, was it an accident(they occure), was he ill or poorly trained, or even aware of the dangers inherent while using this machine? Was it used in the manner the saw was built(was it used for falling timber?) Could this be his ticket to a plush early retiremnt or a way to “cash in”? Who knows.

Luckily this LJ forum is composed of a likeminded group who love wood and respect the tools, either, hand or powered, which produced the end result. I’m glad this is not a fellow LJ, and kinda glad Delta was not forced to settle…............................................JM$0.02

-- Ciao, gth.

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christopheralan

184 posts in 257 days


5 days ago

Can I sue Ford if I drive my truck off a bridge for not making a floating truck?

-- christopheralan http://www.projectwoodworks.com

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RichinsCarpentry

4 posts in 2 days


1 day ago

IT will float!!! But only for a few minutes.

-- See us at www.richinscarpentry.com

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rikkor

8548 posts in 411 days


1 day ago

Beechcraft got sued by an estate once. A guy flew into a box canyon and ran into a granite cloud. The estate claimed that Beechcraft didn’t build enough climb capability into the aircraft. They lost, but Beech had to defend itself at (probably) considerable cost.

-- Maplewood, MN

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snowdog

687 posts in 519 days


1 day ago

I used to love this country, I am not saying that I don’t love it anymore but it is not the same place my grandparents and my parents told me it was. Lawyers, and the politicians that cater to them, have dismantled what helped to make this country great. The people also have responsibility for electing fools to office. If the revolution starts I will be joining. Where is my pick fork and torch we need to start hanging some of the crooks in office <grin> maybe then they will start working for us instead of for themselves.

Dang, sounds like I am in a bad mood <laugh> I better go back to sleep and get up on the other side of the bed :)

I am truly thankful that I live here in the USA so that I can voice my opinion and not have to worry (to much) about the police knocking at my door just because I want real change instead of what we go.

-- "so much to learn and so little time"..

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Roper

410 posts in 250 days


1 day ago

maybe this guy should look in to buying a sawstop for his shop then this type of thing will not happen again. i say this all the time and i’ll say it again, you have to be smarter then the machine your using.

-- Roper - master of sawdust-

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ChuckM

75 posts in 203 days


1 day ago

SUCH A NO BRAINER!

DID ANYONE EVER WONDER WHY THIS CASE WOULD END UP BEING HEARD IN THE COURT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Shouldn’t cases like this be thrown out of the court well before they reach they jury? Judges have power to do so and should do so to avoid wasting the public money.

If you think such cases don’t hurt you, think again: manufacturers have to absorb their legal cost or budget for them in their prices!

-- The time I enjoy wasting is not time wasted

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Joey

229 posts in 352 days


7 hours ago

my company was once sued for not continuing to use an A/C vendor that we had used for a couple of years. He’s lawyer’s thought was that since we had used him more than once we had an implied contract to continue to use him on all of our apartment complexes. We got it put into federal court and the federal magistrate told his attorny that it was a stupid case and that it should go away, but didn’t through it out. They have to go through a process to determine whether they are legitimate or not. In the mean time it cost my company well over $20,000 to defend it and of course it was cheaper to settle out of court than to go to trial. So that’s what we did. But our attorny made the mistake of telling us when we were settleing that we needed to make sure we settled for enough to cover his attorney’s bill. I though my boss was going to kill him. After much cussing and telling him where most attorneys can go, we came to a cheaper figure. Most attorneys are just scum.

-- Joey, Magee, Ms http://woodnwaresms.com

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ChuckM

75 posts in 203 days


6 hours ago

“Most attorneys are just scum.” That statement also partly reflects the deficiency of the legal system.

As far as I know, the meanest jokes circulating on the Internet are on and about lawyers (blondes may be relieved to know that … but not if they happen to be in the attorney profession).

Couldn’t you company consider countersuing the other fellow? Sometimes it’s a tactic a defendant lawyer would use to get the best settlement over the original suit for his or her client. I know of a company which used that tactic to reach an out-of-the-court settlement under which the only cost to the company was the legal costs it incurred. No compensation nor any other money was received by the plaintiff party which had to cover its own costs. The company I know was prepared to go all the way in order to teach the other guy a lesson and the lesson was well served. Justice not money was all that company was concerned about. I hope more companies will act like that and not let people who don’t have a genuine case off the hook.

-- The time I enjoy wasting is not time wasted

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