Frustrated with Electrics!

Ahhh shop wiring. I rewired my shop two years ago for the same reasons. I turned on the lights, turned on the dust collector, hit the tablesaw switch and blackout. I ended up running 100A to the shop and putting 110 and 220 all over the place with most tools on dedicated circuits. If you have the time and the power, it’s not a bad idea to run a 30 or 40A breaker off your main panel to a subpanel in the shop, then run individual circuits to major tools. It’s tough to use up 40A all at once in a home shop.

Cheers!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Yes Jeff, that is a problem for those of us who have converted our garages into shops. They are generally not wired for heavy use. All the plugs and lights are often on the same circuit, since most people do not have that many things plugged in and running at the same time.

I will need to upgrade mine as well before I do the heavy work in it. Last summer I had one fluorescent light, my lathe, a box fan, and a radio on. Things were going fine and then poof. I had to reset the circuit and then back to work. I see I need to add both some 220 and 110v outlets, as well as new amps to the garage. Least I am able to use a shop that has better wiring than mine.

Let us know how you go about wiring it up. It might make a nice blog for many of us to read, so we can follow along the path on upgrades as well.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

A neighbor of mine was an electrician who out of work for a period of time. I comissioned him to rewire my shop. We added a 100A sub panel, rewiring the lights (12 4’ florecents) adding 110 and 220 outlets. I have a number of overhead outlets with cord reels that can be pulled out.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

A great thing Wayne, help both of you out at the same time. Sounds like you now have all the electricity you need.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

Lol. Actually thinking about adding one more 220 Outlet.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

I’m not much of an electrician, so I get nervous messing with it. I know enough to not electrecute myself, but not enough that I’m sure that I’m not about to fry everything plugged in or burn it down for that matter. We had the house built about 6 months before I got the woodworking bug. Too bad. It would have been great to wire without the drywall up. I could’ve install piping to easily add wiring in the future. As it is I have 3 outlets on 2 circuits. One is a freezer circuit, one on the opposite wall, and one in the ceiling. Good news is that the fuse box is in the shop. Makes life a little easier. My father in law installed the 220V outlet for my tablesaw. All my other tools run on normal household voltage. Bill made a good point in that normally there is only one tool running with the exception of dust collection/filtering. We have an electrician in the local club that has done a lot of work for the members. He wired an unfinished large attic that had no electrical for my brother in law. He traded him for 50BF of red oak plus the cost of materials. Another good reason to join your local club!

-- Jeff, South Carolina

My father retired as an Electrician back in 91. All through high school and sometimes in university I would be dragged along to drill holes, run wire and “tie in” lights and plugs. After getting numerous “roots” . . . I have come to respect, but not fear elactricity.

My experience came in real handy when da missus and I built our current house and garage\shop. I too initially ran one circuit of plugs in the shop (off a dedicated panel fed from the house) and POP . . . tripped the breaker.

Anyway . . . I now have 3 circuits of plugs and one for lights . . . and a couple of feet of wire and a spare circuit the panel just in case.

-- The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them

My shop has a 200 Amp service for just the shop, another meter for the house. Anyway almost all of the circuits breakers slots were full. An office, a bathroom, electric heat in each of them. The well pump for the house and shop, The security lights. All of them take slots.

So when I bought the house I had to put in additional box for my tools. I’ve got 5 220V circuits for electric welder, table saw, air compressor, jointer, planer, bandsaw. That’s six, I guess one of them made it into the original box.

It turns out the seller never did the final electrical inspection. So I called the original electrition who would have to request the city inspection. He came over to check out the work one last time before he called the city. He saw my box and checked it over. and it all passed the city inspection.

I wish I had more outlets, every 5 feet. no matter where I want to plug in a tool it won’t require an extension cord.

But I’m not there yet. But I’d like air every 10’ also so it’s never completed. The wish list gets longer all the time.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

I was thinking of just running conduit through the garage, adding plugs every 5 to six feet, adding some fluorescent lights, and then a couple of 220v services. No need to drill out the sheetrock or anything else until it needs to connect to the breaker box. But that will have to wait for a few more sales first.

I also want to add air outlets too, but that is longer down the road. I know what you mean Karson.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

when we built our addition we had a friend do some of the wiring and then brought an electrician in to finish it off.. he shook his head and said (as he fixed things up right) “you know, by the time I get my discounts on supplies for being a professional, the end result for bringing in a pro isn’t that much more than doing it yourself – and then you know it is done right”. Point taken.

When we got the basement wired, the electrician put plugs about every 5-6 feet, with 2 circuits running along the main workbench (top plug on one circuit and bottom plug on another so that same plug could run two items without worrying).. We then had lights put up where we thought we’d need them—should have just put lights throughout the entire shop. We now work in places that are rather dark.

I also wish that I had a master switch at the door to shut everything off to make sure we don’t have “phantom power” being wasted when we are not down there.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

MsDebbie, you look aweful cold in that picture!

I’ve got 3, 220 circuits with 30 amp breakers and two are wired with 50 amp cable ( I wasn’t sure what I needed, but made sure it would be enough). I put all outlets at 50” above the floor so that if a 4 X 8 sheet of plywood was laid against the wall, it wouldn’t cover up the outlets. I spaced them every six feet, but in hind sight it would have been better to know where I needed them. The six feet distance was almost too far apart for my WoodMaster which uses both 220 volts and 110 volts power. I would suggest that you draw up a plan of where you want service and for what and have an electrician look it over and advise you as to what it will take and maybe even give you an estimate, so you know what you getting into.

-- Jesus is Lord!

Os makes a good point in that you need to have a plan of where your tools are going to be. In my case, I have not acquired all the tools I consider essential for a decent shop. I more or less know what I want down the road so I can plan accordingly for the future toys. The tip about putting the outlets high enough so that sheet goods won’t cover them is great. Haven’t even thought about that. I only thought about tool height.

One good thing in my case is that the breaker is in my shop and to my surprise, it has more capacity and power than the standard box. My builder must have known I was going to start woodworking! I can fit a few 220’s and a couple more normal circuits without compromising the household outlets. My club’s electrician has agreed to help me out at cost if I help him with some accounting systems for his business.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

Way to go Jeff! That sounds like a fair trade to me. That should move you along to getting that shop wired.

One thing you may want is a couple of those drop extension cords as well. Then you are not tied to a wall or a specific spot with something. Any you can switch items or plug in more than one if necessary.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

I WAS WONDERING: My new shop lights are excellent for the overall lighting of the shop. However, I often need more light on the countertop that spans one wall. The wall cabinets and my body cast shadows on it. There are numerous light fixtures designed for under cabinet lighting. I like the idea of having rope lights. It looks like a long transparent extension cord with bulbs inside it. I like that they will mount to the corner made by the wall cabinets and the wall which means they take up no room. They also can be removed easily. How much light do these put out? It would be about 36” above the surface. I currently have a couple of the cheap aluminum clamp lights that I move around as needed. They work fine, but would the rope lights give at least as much light as what I got now? What about the battery powered touch light discs?

-- Jeff, South Carolina

I’ve used those battery powered lights for the kids bedrooms so I can go in and check on them. They use led’s and though bright for their size, they aren’t THAT bright. They also cast shadows like crazy. I’m not sure you’d like them. As for the rope lights, I’m only familiar with them in the Christmas light context.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

These are the rope lights I was talking about:

I’ll pass on the touch lights, thanks Mot. They look more like night lights, than work lights anyhow.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

I finally got my chance to make “my shop” in the basement after all these years. First things first, electrical and lighting.

Lighting for safety. Electrical for safety, efficiency and practicallity. Dedicated 20A service for the saw, several 15A circuits, and a SEPERATE 15A circuit for the lights. If your power tool trips a breaker, you don’t want to be in the dark.

ALL wiring to NEC and local codes. No short cuts. No excuses. If you are not sure, don’t do it, let someone who knows do it.

-- WaywardHoosier - Behind schedule and over budget, but who's counting?

Great upgrade! be careful though. I used to think I was a pretty good woodworker, until I installed new light and now I see all of the fine imperfections in my work.

I would say the rope lights would not be enough light for what you want. Instead, you could put in several more fluorescent lights for the price of a single rope light, and have a lot more lighting! I would say go for the real lights and leave the rope lights for decoration.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

I am not sure if these details were mentioned, but there are two or three things that I have learned with my garage shop -

- the power saws will most likely cause florescent tube lights to flicker or go out, just when you need them the most. Use incandescent lighting until you redesign/rewire. I have recently discovered that the newer “compact” florescent replacement bulbs do not seem to have this problem.

- The use of the newer “soft start” tools tends to alleviate the previous problem

- Use the shortest path to the service panel: Pick the outlet closest to your service panel for your projects, use shorter extension cords, make sure that the extension cord has a lower AWG number (bigger gauge wire.)

- WaywardHoosier already mentioned this one: When redesigning your lighting for your shop, make sure that the lighting is on a different circuit from the power tools. Then when the tool trips the circuit, you are not left in the dark.

-- John

“Use the shortest path to the service panel: Pick the outlet closest
to your service panel for your projects, use shorter extension cords,
make sure that the extension cord has a lower AWG number (bigger gauge
wire.)”

Thanks John, like I said before, electrical know-how is something I lack. I know some basics, but not enough to go about many wiring projects on my own. I draw the line at hooking up the ceiling fan! Your comment quoted above is well taken. I hadn’t taken into consideration the length of travel from the power source. I researched it a bit and your advice is sound. I have a 20’ wall that had a counter that spans 15’. The outlet on that wall is in the center and this outlet is in the same run as the ceiling ouitlet. The outlet is less than 2’ from the breaker box. My miter saw, shop vac’s, and most corded hand tools are normally powered from the outlet. The miter saw is the biggest problem as far as tripping. I’ll have to add a dedicated outlet for these tools. There is an outlet in my dining room which shares a wall with the workshop that is almost exactly where I would want an outlet in my shop. The run for that outlet is not used by anything on a permanent basis. I might add to that run and route it to the shop. This is easier than running wires in finished walls. I guess I could always run the wiring outside of the walls and use channels or conduit secured to the wall to hide the wires.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

Please keep in mind that heating of wiring components creates more current flow and nuiscance tripping. Loose connections, aged outlets (bad surface contact), and cheap circuit breakers that are aged can also cause problems. I had a breaker trip once and it would not reset, the developer used the cheapest electrical service he could find and I had it replaced right after that. Go with GE, Siemens, and Square D, etc.

In industry we try to oversize by one guage when possible, to help with heat concerns. Not needed by NEC code, but it provides rigidity especially with long wire runs. That is why extension cords should be avoided if nuiscance tripping occurs. It is another connection and added distance. Woodspar is right about oversizing the extension cord. It is the same concept of oversizing the wire to reduce heat loss.

Vaccum cleaners are a big power draw in a house as well. Most draw over 10A.

No only do I have ample flourescent shop lighting, I have a 100w drop light faced right over my RAS to clearly see what is going on. An incadescent light is minimal current draw for a home.

I have lived in older homes with aged and insufficient services, I understand the frustration with nuiscance tripping. Thank goodness those days are gone for me. Good luck!

-- WaywardHoosier - Behind schedule and over budget, but who's counting?

Here is a pic of the canopies. I mounted a board to the ceiling and secured a switch to it. The three lights are plugged into the switch. It is reachable, but out of the way.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

It looks like plenty of light for that section of your shop. I bet the corners are a little dark though. Maybe you can run another outlet to the farther reaches and give yourself some more light. One advantage of the fluorescents is they use little electricity for the amount of light they put out. Also getting the full sunlight type bulbs will help as well.

Have you gotten an estimate as to how much it would be to rewire the way you want? I am just curious how much it would be, and if there are some savings if you did some of the work yourself.

Let us know how it turns out.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

I’m not sure the going rate for rewiring. I have a member of the local club here helping me out. I am buying the breakers, boxes, wires, etc. . . and he has agreed to help with the labor in exchange for some red oak I have. I bought 500BF to get the quantity discount. I got a great price. I try to sell it for a little more so that the little profit helps pay for the wood I decide to use. Local hardwood is really high here.

The three lights actually give adequate light for the entire shop. It’s hard to tell from the picture, but my shop is only 20’ long. The corner without a light hosts my lumber rack and future DC. Neither need great light. I have a couple clamp on task lights for when I really need great visibility (scroll saw, inlay, etc. . ). I also plan to purchase the under cabinet flor. lights that can be linked together.

-- Jeff, South Carolina

Well it sounds like you got a good bargain with that exchange. Labor is probably the highest priced component of the whole deal. If he is an electrician, maybe he can get the parts at a discount too.

Just out of curiosity, what does a BF of Red Oak for go for in your area? Here it runs around 3.50-4.00 a BF generally speaking.

-- Bill, Turlock California, http://www.brookswoodworks.com

Bill, Locally, there are two sources big sources of hardwood. There are a couple woodworking supply stores that have a few species in limited quantity on hand. They are expensive since it is not bought in bulk and it is fully milled for use. The big sources sell rough red oak at around $4.50BF if the order is less than 100BF. At 100BF it drops to $3.75. My mail order source sells rough red oak for about $2.60BF delivered. They offer discounts at 100BF, 500BF, and 1000BF intervals. I sell it to my club members for $3BF if they buy it as is. I negotiate the price if they want me to dress the boards. It helps pay for the lumber I use! The only down side is that several hundred BF takes up a lot of valuable space.

-- Jeff, South Carolina